9 Kinds of Carnists & How to Deal With Them

Jan 25, 2021

"One’s enemy is often the best teacher of tolerance."
-Colleen Houck,
Tiger's Quest

Understanding Others

Non-vegans generally fit into one or more of these nine categories, depending on their personality and opinion of veganism. By understanding these different kinds of people and why they're making certain excuses, you can more effectively communicate with them and reach some level of understanding (or you'll learn quickly that your time is better spent elsewhere).

1. The Funny Guy

Jokesters don't really take anything seriously, and they often look for opportunities to poke fun at you. Sometimes this is only lighthearted teasing, as they may just be a comical person, but sometimes it's malicious, becoming more like discrimination or harassment than humor. These kinds of people, like bullies, generally use comedy to deflect from their self-consciousness and self-doubt, and it's difficult to know when or if they're being serious.

If you're confronted by a Funny Guy, it may be difficult to connect with them, especially if they're committed to a bit. A good way for them to recognize their prejudice is to ask them if they would make the same jokes about civil rights activists or anti-dog meat activists; make them confront their vegan discrimination.

Or, as I've mentioned before, don't respond to their jokes -- don't react at all and let their words sit in the dead silence to make them feel awkward -- or ask them, "Did you really just say that?" The more you go along with jokes or brush them aside, the more comfortable they feel doing it. Sure, it may be fun to make jokes at their expense in response, but that's skirting around the real issue -- their prejudice against certain animals and animal advocates -- and is unlikely to bring you together to a place of understanding and respect.

2. The Agreeable Carnist

These are actually one of the more slippery types of non-vegans because it's hard to get a grasp on what they really think about veganism. Agreeable Carnists often support whatever you say because they fear confrontation, don't want to admit they don't know or understand what you're talking about, or don't want to listen to your "self-righteousness." Basically, they agree with you to make you shut up so they don't have to deal with you anymore.

It's difficult to know what tactics will work with these kinds of people -- I never made any progress with my ex-boyfriend, who was certainly this kind of non-vegan -- but the best approach to take is to come from an angle that you know they'll find intriguing. Probably the best tactic is to make them talk by asking questions, forcing them into the conversation so you finally understand what kinds of excuses are swirling around their head.

3. The Aggressive Herbivore

The ironic thing about Aggressive Herbivores is that they probably even don't know they're actually herbivores; they're just on offense all the time. They try to attack your morals and poke holes in your arguments. They always want to argue, and sometimes they intentionally seek out confrontation. They want to be angry at you so they don't have to legitimize your arguments.

Carnists in this group are most likely trolls, so interacting with them is ill-advised. (Check out "Dealing with Trolls & Anti-Vegans" and "How to Discuss Veganism Online" to learn more.) Even if they aren't trolls, confrontations -- no matter how civilly you approach them -- will probably not be beneficial to either party. If they're angry and want to battle, there's almost nothing you can say to change their minds.

If you personally know this kind of hotheaded non-vegan, seek out a time and setting where they are less likely to start a fight and will be more amenable to a friendly conversation about veganism. Or, seek to give them small pieces of information at a time, gently easing their way into a broader understanding of your ethics.

4. The Offended Defender

It's easy to offend people when what you're saying contradicts their belief system. These people often take everything as a personal attack and will claim the moral high ground, saying that you're not a good spokesperson for your cause or that you should be more considerate. What they really mean is that you should either shut up or be such a bad activist that you don't even ask people to change. (Even though change is the whole point of activism.)

These kinds of carnists like to nitpick, parsing out your words or actions to find something wrong, something to which they can take offense so they can ignore your whole argument. Luckily, this is easy to combat by just asking them to acknowledge your point instead of worrying about semantics. Keep them focused on the issue at hand, and then you will likely make some real progress. They are probably caring, passionate people, which is why they found whatever you did offensive, so they're more likely to be open to veganism once they're forced to confront the issue head-on.

5. The Apathetic Passiv-ist

These are the kind of people who just let the world pass by around them, not really caring to interact in any meaningful way. Generally, they don't have particularly strong feelings about anything and are likely to say, "That's just how it is," yet they also don't want to know anything about the issues so they can stay cocooned in their ignorance. This is a mindset generally borne of privilege, largely protected and unaffected by the goings-on in the world.

It's tricky to outreach with these people, especially if you don't personally know them. The good thing is that there has to be at least one thing about which they care, and that's what you can (hopefully) use to gently open them up to a conversation.Whether you know them or not, your best bet is to start off appealing to their egotism and lure them in by talking about how veganism could benefit them. (For more on this, see excuse #4 in "Standard Arguments Against Veganism, Pt. 5" and excuse #1 in "Standard Arguments Against Veganism, Pt. 3.")

6. The Enlightened One

"I already know all I need to know, thanks." This is one I've heard before when I try to provide people with other information, sources that directly contradict what they claimed to be truth. Unfortunately, these people think they know everything and that vegans are brainwashed or cherry-pick all their data to defend their own arguments. (What they don't realize is that there's a difference between cherry-picking and legitimate, unbiased scientific evidence, which contradicts the more popular, industry-funded research.)

To avoid getting into disagreements about what is truth and what is fiction, try to focus more on ethics, something they can't dispute by citing some bogus article on the benefits of consuming animal products. When someone refuses to discuss ethics or the conversation just doesn't get to that point, sometimes the best you can do is leave them with resources and urge them to at least consider an alternative source of information, even though it might make them uncomfortable.

7. The Justice Crusader

The complete opposite of the Apathetic Passiv-ist, the Justice Crusader is passionate about social justice. But they think that every other issue is more important than animal rights (and, presumably, the environmental devastation and human rights infringements that are directly tied with animal rights abuses).

Luckily, these kinds of people are already on our side because they clearly have deep empathy for other persons and causes, and we simply need them to make the connection to animals. One of the simplest ways to get them to recognize their hypocrisy is to ask why they can't live vegan while continuing to be an activist for other causes; no one's demanding they stop caring about other social justice issues or that they become solely an animal rights activist.

8. The Complacent Cimplicitor

This is somewhat similar to the previous type of non-vegan because they think they've already done enough for the animals. Usually, they're vegetarians, Meatless Monday followers, humane myth believers, or even environmentalists. Generally, they do care about animals and animal rights, but there's something holding them back from realizing the full scope of their compassion.

Sometimes, even when you show them the truth, they think there are ways to get around being totally vegan because, in their minds, they're already doing their part to help the animals. The most obvious way to confront them with their hypocrisy is to ask if they'd "do enough" when it comes to other issues, such as racism; is it acceptable to be racist only a few days a week, or is it acceptable to only be racist to people with certain skin tones? By showing them that "doing enough" is still harmful, they will begin to understand why veganism is the only humane option.

9. The Confused Evader

Like trying to dodge grenades being hurled in their direction, Confused Evaders, for whatever reason, sidestep every logical argument against them, determined to deny your reasoning. A conversation may start at the humane myth and then end at cannibalism; you never know. The danger with interacting with them is that they're trying to put you on defense by overwhelming you with excuses, which you'll feel compelled to address, thereby distracting you (and them) from the original issue.

Dealing with this kind of carnist can be maddening; it's difficult to keep them grounded on any one specific topic. They're basically running in circles, fingers in their ears, shouting, "Lalalalalala!" However, if you remain calm and steady, you can have a productive conversation with them. The trick is to keep them focused on the issue at hand. If they go off on a tangent, simply say, "I'd be happy to discuss that with you, but let's deal with this issue first." This may not always work, but it's the only way to get anywhere with them because they will continue to throwing everything and the kitchen sink in your direction to see what sticks.

be conscious, be kind, be vegan