Lament of Hathor is one of the more unique books I’ve had the pleasure of reading for an interview. Penned by Samuel Baca-Henry and written in the style of an ancient lament, it portrays the cow goddess Hetheru’s (aka Hathor’s) lament over the senseless abuse and slaughter of animalkind. This is the kind of book that shows that the history of animal rights is no modern invention. It stretches far into the past, when the borders between human and animal were far less rigid.

The Interview

Find Sam online

• Website

• Instagram

• StoryGraph

• Goodreads

• YouTube

• TikTok

• Facebook

• Threads

• Substack

All links can be found at lnk.bio/samuel_lament_of_hathor.

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We have our second returning author today! Nadja and I discussed her children’s chapter book, Tizzy & Me: Fifteen Ways to Love a Mink (interview here), last year, but today Nadja will be talking about her upcoming short story collection, The Life of a Creature, winner of the Siskiyou Prize for New Environmental Literature. A dazzling, enthralling book, it shows that all animal species are connected, united in the most essential way: through birth, life, and death. Enjoy!

Story Questions

Short stories have so much less real estate than novels. You have to set the stage quickly and race through the exposition to get into the plot as fast as possible without, of course, making the whole thing feel rushed. How do you come up with a hooky opening line and scene? Do you need to find that hook before getting to the rest of the story, or do you worry about it after the rest of the story’s already written?

Yes, I think I do need to find the hook first, but it’s really about hooking myself, so that I’m curious or excited about who a character is, or what is going to happen next in the story. I don’t start writing anything new until I’ve discovered a spark that ignites my imagination, and then I’m off. Of course once it’s finished there’s always lots of editing and revising, and quite often I discover that the beginning of the story is sometimes a few paragraphs or even a few pages in, or that I need to adjust how the story begins to complement the ending. I guess I’d describe it best by saying I start by hooking myself, and during the revision stage, I make sure the reader will feel hooked as well.

Does your writing process differ at all between novels and short fiction?

I’d have to say that there isn’t really a significant difference. When I first became interested in pursuing writing, I began with creative non-fiction, but I fell in love with fiction as a better way to express myself after I wrote my first novel. I continued to write novels, but I felt like I needed to start getting published, so I turned to the short story form. My first few short stories were actually excerpts from my first novel, which was a practical way for me to start exploring the form. When I read short stories, I often interpret them as a scene within a larger story, one that I am often left wondering about, and wishing to know more. I feel that way when I write them as well.

I’m not currently working on any short stories, although I have the beginnings of a story about a chicken rescue, which I envisioned as a novel, but wonder if perhaps it will become a short story instead. The short story in this collection, “What Dwells Within,” is quite long, and I’m planning on expanding it into a novel. So it seems I move between the two forms with a fair amount of ease.

Coming from an American perspective, I’ve seen my country become less tolerant of other cultures and of people who don’t share our same beliefs, even for the folks in Canada, like yourself, who have always been our friends and allies. I can’t help but think that people who harbor so much hate in their hearts could benefit greatly from reading a few good books. How important is it for us to seek out literature from other countries and cultures?

How heart-warming to consider that hate might shift from reading a few good books. I think it’s essential to seek out literature that opens our hearts and minds to the experience of others, especially those voices that have been silenced, ignored, or marginalized. I have been studying poetry over the last few months, and recently read a harrowing but exquisite collection of poems called Tell, by Canadian author Soraya Peerbaye. The poems explore the murder of Reena Virk, who was bullied, assaulted and drowned by her peers when she was fourteen. The aftermath focussed on the issue of teenage bullying, but Peerbaye’s poetic account reveals a difficult truth about the pervasiveness of racism in Canada. These are the kinds of stories that I seek out; they teach me a great deal about the power of stories to create empathy, and they deepen my understanding of systemic oppression and injustice.

Alright, back to the book. Even in stories where the narrator isn’t a medical professional, there’s a specificity to your anatomical descriptions that, presumably, comes from your experience as a veterinarian. Obviously, that alone does not make a writer’s “voice,” but how do our personal experiences contribute to narrative voice, and how can voice elevate an author’s work?

I think it helps to think about voice quite simply as what a writer thinks about and talks about, and how the writer says those things. The stories that I write reveal a lot about my personal experiences as an animal lover and advocate, a veterinarian, a writer with mental illness, and a member of the LGBTQ community; I can also see that I return often to themes of grief, trauma, and healing.

Many readers describe my writing as rich with detailed imagery. I do think this is the other element of my “voice”, and that it, too, is related to my personal experiences. As a veterinarian, listening intently to narratives when we take a history of an animal’s illness is always the first step towards a diagnosis, and paying attention to subtle details when we do a physical exam is the next. Both lead to having keen perception. And I have many years of training in mindfulness through meditation and yoga; I think this too has helped me to develop a sharper focus on the world within, and the world around me. I pay a lot of attention to small details, and I think that shows in my writing.

I can think of many authors whose unique voice elevates their work. The Canadian author Allisa York comes to mind; I aspire to write the way she does: complex characters, evocative plots, rich detail, and attention to the natural world.

Though most of these stories are told from a human perspective, switching to an animal’s POV, like the dog in “You’re No Marlow Boy” or the polar bear in “Captive,” opens up the possibilities for sensory descriptions in our writing, giving readers a whole new perspective on the same old world. How do you get into the headspace of writing from an animal’s POV, and has writing in that way given you a new appreciation for animals?

I adore stories that are told from an animal’s point of view, especially when the animal is a complex and nuanced main character, rather than a stand-in for a human. I’m fascinated too, with the incredibly diverse sensory experiences of different species. Ed Yong’s book, An Immense World: How Animal Sense Reveal the Hidden Realms Around Us, is such an astonishing and informative book that really drives home the notion that what we sense and perceive is only a tiny piece of what exists around us. Both dogs and polar bears have an extraordinary sense of smell, so I tried hard to work with smell as a primary sense in those stories.

I think I already had an incredible appreciation for animals; what I did receive was a new appreciation for how challenging it is to write from a point of view that is so far from my own, and an admiration for writers who have done so. I would say that The White Bone, by Canadian author Barbara Gowdy, is one of my all-time favourite novels that’s told from the POV of animals — elephants.

I noticed little connections running through this collection — references to the same historic events, similar animals, similar circumstances, and there’s even one character who stars in several of the stories — making the book feel cohesive. It’s like all the characters are inhabiting the same world and each gets their chance to shine in a story of their own. Did these connections arise organically, or did you tweak the stories slightly after figuring out the order they’d go in?

I’ll begin with the linked stories, the ones about Sophie and her daughter Maddie. These characters are from the first novel I ever wrote, about twenty years ago. I had not studied creative writing, and was not part of a writing community, so I really didn’t know what I was doing. Although parts of it were quite good, as a novel it wasn’t well crafted. Instead, I mined a few short stories from it. I agree that these stories give a cohesiveness to the collection, and I always love reading short story collections that are linked like this.

I think many of the other connections arose organically. I realized once I received the illustrations how many stories had black dogs in them. I think there are at least five: Orpheus, Friday, Phobos, Napoleon, and an unnamed black poodle. I didn’t do this intentionally, but I see now that my first dog, Banjo, is weaving her way through these stories, ever present. She was a border-collie mix, a rescue dog, slated for vivisection at the veterinary college I attended when I was in my early twenties. I loved her dearly; she was my soul-dog, and I still think of her often, and miss her. Similarly, a few stories feature a lilac tree in the backyard — that’s the one from my childhood home. I think you are right to suggest all the characters inhabit the same world — my inner world, with all of its experiences and memories, and all of its joys and sorrows.

In terms of ordering the stories, I had a few criteria. I wanted Sophie’s stories to weave through the collection, rather than being grouped together; I felt it was important to leave a bit of breathing room between the stories that included overt violence towards animals; I wanted to start and finish with strong stories; and I tried to space out the stories that had a dog as a main character.

So many of these stories deal with death and grief, human and nonhuman lives entangling throughout the narratives. In your author’s note, you write that “harm can be alchemized into healing” through art, and we observe that firsthand with one of the characters in “What Dwells Within.” In your own life, how have you seen the healing power of art in action?

Yes, absolutely. Much of what I write is a way for me to process difficult experiences and events, and my emotional response to them. I feel like art is a powerful way of releasing those emotions. It also provides an opportunity to integrate traumatic experiences, to make sense of them, or explore their meaning. A couple of years ago I participated in a collage workshop, and I was so inspired that I spent several months creating a multitude of collages about my family’s experiences with mental illness. It was so cathartic. I’ve continued to collage, and created several series about animals and our treatment of them; my most recent set was focussed on dingos.

My own experience with collage very much inspired the use of it in “What Dwells Within.” I plan to expand on that story, and hope to further explore how art, specifically collage, heals.

In stories like “What Dwells Within” and “You’re No Marlow Boy,” you explore the connections between violence against women/children and violence against animals. I love how you describe the effect this has on Penny in “The Things We Left Behind”: “She loves the world slantwise now, her heart halfway closed but wide open when it comes to animals.” Can you speak more about why this topic in particular inspires your writing?

I spoke in our previous interview about the profound effect that Carol J. Adams’ book, The Sexual Politics of Meat, had on me, especially as it relates to feminism and animal rights. I think her world view opened my eyes to looking at violence in a different way, to making connections between the harm that is inflicted on animals, and other vulnerable populations, like women, children, and people of colour.

One of the reasons that this topic inspires my writing is because of how much I’ve been exposed to it, and affected by it, through my advocacy and my veterinary work, especially my continuing education in veterinary social work. I was at a conference where the topic was the link between domestic violence and animal violence. The horrific incident that a police officer shared was one of the inspirations for “What Dwells Within.” There is a growing awareness about the link between cruelty to animals and violence to people; studies have found that cruelty to animals is both an indicator and predictor of interpersonal, family and community violence. I hope that by sharing these narratives, readers might see this type of violence in a new way.

Considering my typical taste in fiction, it comes as no surprise (to myself at least) that “Captive” is my favorite story in the collection. Unlike what River says in “River’s Wake” about how our “collective death phobia” makes us hide death underground — or, in the case of farmed animals, behind factory farm and slaughterhouse walls — the cruelty of zoos is out in the open for all to see. But we rarely look closely, rarely try to empathize with the animals in those cages. Why do you think we, as a society of animal lovers, are so easily duped into disbelieving the cruelty we see with our own eyes?

You are right, much of the cruelty of zoos is out in the open for all to see, but I think that we are taught from a very young age to consider this captivity as normal, entertaining, and educational. I just did a quick search on the Toronto Public Library catalogue and found more than 150 picture books alone that were about “zoo” animals, and only 1 picture book about animals in captivity. Some of these stories weren’t even set in zoos; our language is a reflection on how we’ve normalized wild animals being labelled as zoo animals. And zoos market themselves as essential for conservation, education and scientific research. In Canada, CAZA (Canadian Association of Zoos and Aquariums) states that they are “inspiring a future where wildlife and people thrive together.”

I am on the board of directors of Zoocheck and I would encourage readers to discover more about the realities of animals in captivity and what actions they can take to advocate for them. This is one of my favourite stories as well, especially as it was inspired by a real polar bear named Yupi, who was held in a small, barren concrete enclosure in a Mexican zoo for over two decades. Zoocheck worked tirelessly to have Yupi moved to a more appropriate habitat, but she unfortunately died before we were successful.

“River’s Wake” is a story that hung heavy in my heart long after I finished it. In it, River develops reverence for a creature that’s typically reviled, saying that we hate vultures “because they remind us…that we’re just a part of the food chain, the same as every other animal.” But that fear of being just another edible animal can also be exhilarating. It makes us feel alive to contemplate death. On some level, we all crave the feeling of being part of the natural world, so we look to fiction to reignite our primal nature. In what ways does fiction help you reconnect with the natural world?

I read a lot of both fiction and non-fiction that reconnect me to the natural world, but also connect me to other writers who share a similar world-view as mine. The first thing that came to mind when I read your question was an essay by Val Plumwood, a philosopher and ecofeminist, who survived a harrowing crocodile attack, and went on to write and reflect on the experience of being considered prey. She writes: “We act as if we live in a separate realm of culture in which we are never food, while other animals inhabit a different world of nature in which they are no more than food, and their lives can be utterly distorted in the service of this end.”

In terms of fiction specifically, I really love narratives that immerse us in the umwelt (the unique world that each animal perceives and experiences) of other creatures. I’ve already mentioned Gowdy’s novel, which I felt so deeply immersed in that I felt like I was becoming elephant. Another book that comes to mind is Dog Boy, by Eva Horung, a stunning and heartbreaking novel that blurs the lines between what it is to be human and to be canine. These stories invite us into other worlds, into other ways of knowing and being. They also challenge our speciesism, and help readers see themselves as more similar than different to other creatures.

Animals trot in and out of these stories, winding their way through the human characters’ lives. In the real world, we often try to separate humans from other creatures, but we have been and always will be linked. What do you hope readers will take away from this collection about interspecies connections?

I agree, we have been and always will be linked to other creatures: we are intimately and inextricably in relationship with animals all the time, and we cannot exist without them. In these stories I wanted to invite readers to pay closer attention to the more-than-human world, and in doing so, maybe see that world with a new perspective.

I’m currently reading Governing Bodies: A Memoir, A Confluence, A Watershed by Sangamithra Iyer, and I just discovered this powerful question: “Can the writer provide a type of sanctuary while exploring difficult material so that the reader can be transformed by it?”

I’m not sure I achieved it, but this captures what I hope readers found: sanctuary within a narrative that is at times heart-breaking, but also perhaps, transformative.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

My website www.nmlhazard.com is a great place to start. You can find links to all of my writing there, whether that’s short stories, poems, or longer works. I’m also on IG @nmlhazard.

Any upcoming projects?

Yes! After a bit of a delay, my second children’s chapter book, Tizzy & Me: The Incredible Adventure of Moondog’s Eye, will be published this fall, and my second novel, Saving Seraphina, will be published in early 2027. I’m currently working on a collection of poems about the spotted hyena, and a new novel that expands on the short story, “What Dwells Within,” that’s part of this collection.

Anything else you’d like to share?

Just a thank you for this opportunity!

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The Tortoise’s Tale is one of those rare books that transfixed me from the first page. Kendra Coulter’s debut novel, the story follows a tortoise, often called Magic, as she lives out her days on a private estate. The pages are filled with love and loss, joy and pain, but no matter who comes and goes from Magic’s life, she remains. I imagined her like a little tugboat, chugging along the grounds, chugging along through life, as the figurative waters eased out of her path or battered against her tough shell. It brought me such joy to read her story, and I don’t think anyone could finish this book thinking animals are anything less than their own persons living in their own worlds with stories to tell and rights to be protected. Having coincidentally spotted a few copies of the novel at an indie bookstore while on vacation earlier this month, I have to hope that Magic’s story leaves that impression on all those who read her tale.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I think the primary purpose of my life is to improve and save animals’ lives. I lead the world’s first major in animal ethics and sustainability leadership at Huron University College, Western University and have been writing about animals for academic, governmental, and public audiences for more than a decade including the nonfiction book Defending Animals: Finding Hope on the Front Lines of Animal Protection (The MIT Press). I began writing fiction in earnest during the pandemic for my own wellbeing and hoping it could be another way to engage people’s hearts and minds and it’s been thrilling to now share The Tortoise’s Tale with the world. It was published by Simon & Schuster and named a best of 2025 by Library Journal and Eco Lit Books.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

Art doesn’t replace or replicate frontline protection work or advocacy efforts, but can complement them, reach a different and, at times, larger audience, and cultivate empathy and compassion. If people are really moved emotionally, they may think about the real worlds and lives of animals too. Hearing that The Tortoise’s Tale is reaching readers’ hearts, spirits, and even souls is profoundly meaningful and I hope those feelings will expand to solidarity with animals beyond the pages.

Any advice for aspiring authors to improve their craft, especially as it pertains to writing about animals?

My advice would vary depending on someone’s goals. But overall, the reality is that most people want to read about people. So to create animal-centric or multispecies stories with potential to ‘make it’ in commercial publishing, the writing needs to stand out at word, line, and story levels. Additional specifics will be shaped by what kind of book it is (e.g. literary vs upmarket vs commercial) and if it’s within a particular genre (e.g. a thriller, a romance, etc.). I recommend learning about the industry itself and thinking strategically if you’re serious about trying to secure an agent and create manuscripts that will be considered by major publishers and imprints. You take all the challenges of getting published and then amplify them when animals are central.

How was writing and publishing a novel different from and similar to your previous nonfiction books?

I first expanded from scholarly monographs to commercial nonfiction. That itself was a significant change in style and intent, and I wouldn’t have been able to do so if I weren’t already writing so much for the media and able to translate complicated ideas into more accessible formats. Writing more commercial nonfiction (Defending Animals) animated me because I was able to integrate stories and even more heart. Then, to transition into fiction, that required a completely different mindset. You cannot explain or say everything you want to say explicitly or impose; you have to cultivate characters, setting, story, and plot that captivate people and invite, engage, and inspire.

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Story Questions

The Tortoise’s Tale follows in the long tradition of animal autobiographies, books like Black Beauty and Beautiful Joe that not only inspired change but also inspired animal advocates to keep fighting. Why did you decide to write an animal autobiography of your own, and why choose a tortoise as its subject?

Two wonderful examples of animal memoirs with real-world effects. When I learned about Jonathan, the world’s oldest land animal, a giant tortoise who lives in the governor’s mansion on the island of Saint Helena, I found his life inspiring and incredibly humbling. I thought the viewpoint of a giant tortoise would make a powerful perspective for a fictional memoir rooted in real truths, pitched the idea to my agent, and the result is The Tortoise’s Tale. Tortoises intrigue people and because they are reptiles, they can de-normalize things female mammals do, such as giving birth to babies and producing food for those babies. The idea of drinking the milk of another mammal is particularly unusual for a tortoise.

The novel’s first line is “I miss music.” Aside from the human and nonhuman persons she loves, music is perhaps the most important thing in Magic’s life. When did you realize that music would play such a big role in her story? Was this at all influenced by research on music’s effect on animals?

I think music is probably the most redemptive thing our species has created. It causes virtually no harm. It has appeal within and across species. It can unite, entertain, and empower. It was also a delightful way for me to demarcate where we are in time for readers. Before I wrote the novel, I had three bullet points and a song lyric, so music was central to the story at every stage: Music made by birds, and by people.

Speaking of research, can you give us some insight into your research process for this novel? Did you learn anything especially surprising along the way?

The novel is shaped by more than ten years of scholarly knowledge so most of the research was on things like what songs were in the charts in June of 1956. While writing, I learned about Fernanda, an extraordinary giant tortoise, and the book is dedicated to her and Jonathan. Her life is integral to one of the central mysteries in the novel so I don’t want to say anything more but encourage readers to search her name after they’ve finished reading.

I was struck by Magic’s joie de vivre, and I felt my spirits lifting as I read. She has many reasons to sulk and mope, but she never lets the wrongs inflicted upon her by humans prevent her from opening her heart to those who show her kindness. And not even on the people who are “discourteous, selfish, and mocking,” as she puts it, does she wish the “overwhelming feeling of loneliness and angst” caused by living in captivity. Why was it important to you that Magic be a joyful tortoise?

I wouldn’t use the words sulk or mope; when she witnesses loss or tragedy, she feels immense, unfiltered sorrow and grief. I wouldn’t simply call her joyful either. She has a rich and complex emotional fabric, feels each experience in her long life fully, and yet maintains hope, stubborn hope specifically, deliberately so.

Magic enjoys watching movies and notes that characters “recognizing the errors of their ways and apologizing” is something she “had rarely witnessed in real life.” If animals could offer us advice, what do you think they’d say?

Please be more cautious and caring, you who hold such power over lives and deaths.

The book is sprinkled with commentary on the role that animal stories — such as Peter and the Wolf, Swan Lake, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Doctor Dolittle, and Charlotte’s Web — play in shaping our thoughts on animals. One character comments that the film Bedtime for Bonzo was disturbing in retrospect, and I imagine many animal advocates have similar feelings about some of our favorite childhood stories. How did those stories impact you as a kid, and why did you want to reference them throughout Magic’s tale?

Each inclusion in the novel, whether it is a song, a play, a book, or a real human figure, was specifically chosen to enrich the narrative and reflect the book’s themes. The texts (broadly conceived) often shared with children and adults alike have complex animal characters and issues, to put it mildly. So they add another level to the novel and its engagement with the contradictions and powers of creativity and human-animal relationships.

There’s something particularly moving in hearing an animal’s life story in their own words. I felt oddly nostalgic as I read, as if I were connecting with a younger version of myself whose love of animals was more innocent, less complicated, and undiluted by the knowledge of the horrors they face at human hands on a daily basis. I can’t imagine anyone not being profoundly changed by the time they finish the novel. How have other readers reacted?

With lots of love, and we all need so much more of that! I hope the tortoise and her community continue to rest gently in people’s hearts long after the final pages.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

kendracoulter.com

@gifted.horse on Instagram is where I am most active.

Any upcoming projects?

Yes but they’re not for discussion yet.

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I’ve been following Melanie Joy’s work almost as long as I’ve been vegan, but I never thought in a million years that our paths would converge. The release of Melanie’s debut novel seems to be part of what I hope is a trend that’s arisen in the last year or so: mainstream animal advocates and vegan nonfiction authors making the jump to fiction. To name a few, Chris Cooney (aka The Vegan Zombie) released his horror movie, Victoria Moran and her husband are working on a feature film, and Kendra Coulter published her debut novel. I hope to see this trend continue.

But back to the woman of the hour. Melanie’s novel, A Half-Hearted Death Wish, follows Emma, a clinical psychologist who wakes up one morning with the sudden desire to kill herself, and what follows is a race against the clock as Emma fights to keep herself alive while struggling to figure out how to cure herself of this disease.

You can listen—that’s right, we’ve got an audio interview for you today!—to our conversation below.

The Interview

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Today’s a special day because we have a returning author here for the very first time! In last year’s interview, Jay VanLandingham and I discussed his short story “The Movement of Whales,” but today we’re focusing on his dystopian trilogy, Sentient, the final book of which was released last May. I always love reading for his thoughts on writing, so I’m sure you’ll love this interview, too!

General Questions

Has your writing process changed since we chatted in your interview last year? In your newsletter, you’ve discussed how you’re trying to focus more on the internal joy of writing rather than on reaching certain external goals. Has that changed your outlook on writing at all?

Yes, my writing process has changed. Maybe because I have changed (and am always changing, to some degree). I came to realize that I wasn’t going to be happy by rushing through book writing just to get to the end game, just to have something published and “out there,” with the hopes it would lead to my success as an author. I had to reframe what success meant for me, in order to become more happy. Today, success means enjoying the moment. With my writing, I’ve learned to sit and enjoy the story. This is the only time I will have to write this story. One day, the story will end, and I’ll likely never encounter those characters and those experiences ever again. Making the most of the process, rather than focusing on the outcome, has led to a deeper enjoyment. I take my time with each chapter. I give myself more than a year, if that’s what it takes, and it has significantly improved my experience and, I believe, my writing. Readers will find that out for themselves with my next book.

With the abundance of podcasts, books, online courses, workshops, articles, and newsletters, it’s never been easier for aspiring authors to cultivate a relatively inexpensive, DIY education. What made/makes up your curriculum? What resources have you found most helpful?

Great question! I go with what works best for me. I’m not much for podcasts or online courses, I admit. I like books. Some of the ones I refer to and have used the most are “oldies but goodies,” such as Word Painting by Rebecca McClanahan, which is great for learning description; The Writer’s Journey by Christopher Vogler; Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg. The other trick I use is to simply read as many fiction books as I possibly can, especially in the genre I want to write. Reading fiction is the best resource.

What part of the writing process comes most naturally to you? What part has taken the most work?

Overall, writing first drafts and allowing for the mystery has come most naturally to me. Allowing for “shitty first drafts,” as Anne LaMott has said. What takes the most work, and something I alluded to in the first question, is taking my time with revisions. Not rushing the revision process, and allowing a book to take as long as it needs before readying it for publication.

Any plans to give traditional publishing a shot in the future?

I am definitely considering traditional publishing for my 4th novel, particularly a small press, if the fit is right and the contract is fair.

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Story Questions

Where did you get the idea for the Sentient universe? How much of the series’ story arc did you know from the beginning?

The idea developed over time. I knew that for some of the themes to work that citizens needed to be living in isolation/separation, but completely disconnected from nature. I knew climate change had to be a factor. The idea that animal activists were living in hiding (or disappeared), came from many books I had read on the subject, such as Green is the New Red by Will Potter. Much of the idea came from the true experiences of activists, undocumented immigrants, and of course animals, that are intertwined within the system of animal agriculture (not that we all aren’t).

As far as the story arc goes, I had a vague understanding of what needed to happen, much of the “bigger picture” elements, in view from Book One. Much of the details came along as I wrote the books. And of course there were plenty of surprises, as the characters emerged and began to write themselves.

Many vegan writers dabble in the speculative fiction sphere. What do you think it is about this genre, or dystopias specifically, that presents such a rich setting for vegan authors?

Dystopian fiction provides the opportunity to explore how far into darkness humanity can go. For vegans like myself, it is already dark enough, what I know and have experienced/learned as an animal activist throughout the years. The world of animal agriculture can be cruel and sadistic. Dystopian fiction may actually lend the reader to being more open to consider what “might happen” if our world continues in its current trajectory, as far as climate change and the perverse exploitation of nature are concerned. And, alternatively, I believe Dystopian fiction can also show readers a glimmer of hope, that no matter how dark things can get, there is always a way to make things better. There is always an opportunity to be more proactive in preventing the possible realities that Dystopian fiction presents.

The world as it is today already feels quite dystopian. Why did you want to set your dystopian story just two decades in the future?

Exactly what you said: the world as it is “already feels quite dystopian.” When I first conceived of this series, it was 2013. I set the series in the 2040s because I believed there was a possibility that by 2040, much of what was occurring in the series might actually come to be (I don’t actually believe that to be the case), creating a greater sense of urgency and horror for the reader. At the time, I thought that if readers could see this as “close and present danger,” it might propel them to act faster to address climate change and animal agriculture.

Your three main characters in the Sentient trilogy all have very different backgrounds. How do you approach writing characters whose life experiences differ so drastically from your own?

I do my research, first and foremost. For Bertan, the undocumented immigrant working in a slaughterhouse, I read tons of books (Every 12 Seconds by Timothy Pachirat), watched videos, and interviewed undercover animal activists. Once I feel I have enough research to start, just as with any character, I learn about them. I do my characterization, and I learn about the person, remembering that we are all pretty much the same, underneath. It’s just about discovering the character’s fears, desires, and motivations, and making sure to understand their culture, race, ethnicity, getting sensitivity readers to check myself before I wreck myself. ;)

When Bertan is working on the kill floor at an S-Corp slaughterhouse, you show how the animal agriculture industry strips everyone of identity. The workers call the cows “beefs”; the workers all wear diapers because they’re not permitted bathroom breaks; and the workers are rarely referred to by their names but more often by their position on the kill floor. Bertan eventually starts to forget even his own name. After all, “no one much cared how anybody felt in a place like this.” I especially like the description of the company’s structure, with the outward-facing employees working in the part of the building nicknamed Heaven, the management offices nicknamed Purgatory, and the “Dirty Side” employees working in Hell. Why did you feel it was important to draw comparisons between how S-Corp treats its employees and how it treats animals?

In my experience, non-vegans have even less education regarding the treatment of workers in animal agriculture than they do the treatment of the animals themselves. My writing coach, for example, was shocked to learn that close to 50% of all workers in this field are undocumented. So in part it was to educate the reader. In addition, due to the cognitive dissonance that exists with regard to the treatment of animals in factory farms (most people are aware that animals are treated horribly but cannot bring themselves to stop eating animal products), so I wanted to make the connection that when we treat an animal with cruelty, that cruelty can easily extend to humans. Thus the factory workers.

Upon escaping the hospital and seeing a vast stretch of wide, open land, Bray thinks about “how all this land could’ve been used for farm animals” but wasn’t. Those of us concerned with animal rights can often be reminded of the injustices animals face by innocuous things like empty land. When something catches you by surprise like that, how do you deal with the subsequent emotions?

Well, I write about it (thus the Sentient series). This entire series is essentially me processing my feelings, the powerlessness and helplessness, primarily, that I feel with regard to the seemingly impossible situation of the use of animals for food, testing, etc, etc. And sometimes I process with other vegans. Community is super important for that.

In episode two of The Animalist Code, Emerson writes on his blog, “How do we stop this animal cruelty without community? Without one another? The world has us so divided that we don’t come together to fight for what’s right anymore.” In your opinion, what can we, as activists, do to build communities and set aside superficial differences to work towards a common goal?

I wish I had an answer for this one. My personal feeling is that activists need to find a way to accept some middle ground, in order to work together. I’ve witnessed animal activists shaming and verbally attacking other animal activists for differences in beliefs, when we are all a part of the same team, aren’t we? We need to find ways to set aside our own personal beliefs and focus the things we can agree on, and start there. Let the pettiness go.

Emerson’s trans identity isn’t a source of conflict in The Animalist Code; no one shows animosity toward him simply because of his gender. (Kage, on the other hand, doesn’t get off quite so easily.) Was that an active decision, or simply a result of the short story format?

It was not an active decision. It was, in part, due to story length, and situation. Emerson lives in a time/place where he does not, as a vegan, have to remain in hiding. Transition is an option for him, and so “passing” in social situations is possible. For Kage, who had no chance at starting HRT, gender-affirming surgery, and the like. Not to mention I wanted to show that parallel between being trans and not having access to care and being an animal and being trapped in a factory farm without access to nature.

Do you see a relationship between trans and animal activism? Are there any parallels between the fight to normalize trans and animal rights?

See previous answer. I do see a relationship between trans and animal activism, in that we are all deserving of equality, regardless of being human, non-human animal, trans, cisgender, etc, etc. Equality is intended for everyone, but how do we get there? The fight to normalize trans rights is similar in that what we transgender individuals seek is that freedom to be ourselves. To live in our true nature. I believe the fight for animal rights is the same; that animals are given the same rights as humans, to be free to roam and live without exploitation.

Since the Sentient stories deal with strong animal rights themes, how did you approach finding critique partners, beta readers, editors, etc?

I was lucky that one of my beta readers is actually a vegan writer. But honestly, I found it more helpful that my editor and other beta readers were not at all knowledgeable or invested in animal rights. They, after all, were the audience I was aiming for with this series.

You’ve spent years in the Sentient universe. How does it feel to finally be finished?

It feels surreal. As if it did not happen at all. I think that’s why, with this fourth novel, I’m taking my time. So I can enjoy every last bit of it before it’s over.

What do you hope readers of the Sentient books can learn about life, love, and activism in the real world?

That it starts with acceptance. When we can accept ourselves, others, and the way life is today, it doesn’t mean we are giving up. Acceptance creates energy and space for right action. Life is paradox and mystery and none of us have 100% of the answers. Only in all of us coming together, unifying, and choosing to love differences, can we become the answer. That love in action means finding ways to accept and to be in community with those that are not like-minded, not living in a bubble.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

My website: jayvanlandingham.com

Substack: substack.com/@jayvanlandingham

Instagram: @jayvanauthor

Any upcoming projects?

Yes! No title reveal yet, but I will have some short fiction and a fourth novel coming…soon 🙂

Anything else you’d like to share?

Thank you for the opportunity, I appreciate it.

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The first time I heard of Sangamithra Iyer, I knew she was one of my people. The way she talks of writing, of animals, and of the power of literature to change the way people think about animals speaks directly to my soul. As such, it’s a great honor to have her here today discussing her new memoir, Governing Bodies. This book is many things, and merely calling it a memoir almost doesn’t do it justice. To understand what this book means, you must think deeply about what exactly a memoir is. It is the author’s life laid bare on the page, a reflection on their deepest thoughts and a dissection of what they mean. It is both intimate and personal and also vast and worldly. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

Caring about animals has been a part of me for as long as I could remember. My parents immigrated from India, and I was the lone vegetarian in my classes who also opted out of dissection. I am proud of this younger me, for not conforming to norms, at a time when it was very difficult and lonely to be different. I think animal rights is where my courage comes from and where my sense of justice was first formed.

In high school, I became head of our animal rights club—Students Against Animal Violations and Exploitation (SAAVE), where we would protest fur and stencil storm drains to protect aquatic animals.

I ended up studying and practicing civil engineering, but I kept looking at opportunities to volunteer for animals. I was an avid reader, and loved reading books about animals. I was looking to find my own way to work that benefited our fellow beings. When I read Roger Fouts’s book, Next of Kin in college about Washoe, the first chimpanzee to acquire American Sign Language, it changed my life, and led me to other volunteer and activist opportunities. Creative writing came later as extension of that activism.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

I had volunteered my engineering skills for a primate sanctuary in Cameroon in 2002. Upon returning to the U.S., I met the editors of Satya Magazine at an animal rights conference in D.C. I was invited to write about my experiences with orphaned chimpanzees in the forest of Cameroon. That was my first published article, and my entry into the professional world of writing in 2003. Soon after, I quit my engineering job to become an editor at Satya Magazine, which focused on the linkages between animal advocacy, social justice, environmentalism and veganism. It was the perfect job that didn’t feel like a job. It felt like being part of an amazing community.

It closed in 2007, and I had to figure out what I wanted to do next. I pursued an MFA in Creative Writing while working full time on water protection. That is when I started working on my debut book that was just published: Governing Bodies: A Memoir, A Confluence, A Watershed.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I think the arts—and literature in particular—is a place where we can dwell in the difficult questions. Literature can hold grief. It can help us imagine another way forward. The arts can nourish our souls as we work on those tangible changes.

What is , and how did you come up with the idea to start it?

The Literary Animal Project is a habitat for curated conversations, questions, and writings that explore how animals are and can be portrayed on the page, beyond symbols, metaphors and mirrors. It will spotlight multi-species storytelling, The goal is to inspire dialogue and create community around the art and ethics of writing about animals and encourage storytelling and discussion that spotlight multi-species perspectives, animal agency, and activism.

Your essay in The Edinburgh Companion to Vegan Literary Studies, “Through a Vegan Lens: The Challenges and Ethics of Exposé,” was itself like an exposé of Eating Animals and The Omnivore’s Dilemma. How can authors better balance truth and dramatic storytelling in nonfiction?

Thank you for reading that essay, which explores the Exposé and offers a critical look at those texts. When a writer is working to expose difficult truths like violence towards animals, there is often a discomfort that both the writer and reader face. The challenge for the writer is to figure out how to write to readers so they will continue to read and not shut the book. But the aim should be not only to relieve the writer and reader of the discomfort—but also the animals! We need to remember that is the goal for our storytelling.

In your essay “Are You Willing?” from Writing for Animals, you share the story of a man who cared for the ants in his cell at Guantánamo Bay. In what ways can stories about humans encourage readers to care more deeply about animals?

This is also something I am interested in exploring more with The Literary Animal project—how do we capture what it means to be a human who thinks and feels deeply about other animals. There is much solidarity I feel when I encounter this on the page. The essay “A Handful of Walnuts” by Ahmed Errachidi and his care for these tiny vulnerable creatures in Guantanamo Bay, where he and his inmates were routinely abused, was so moving to me. Even in the harshest and most unjust conditions, the instinct to love and care for all life persists.

Do you have any advice for vegan authors who’re writing about animals — either fiction or nonfiction — for getting an agent or getting traditionally published more generally?

My path was circuitous, long, and the opposite of a traditional route. Early on in the process, I had spoken to several editors and agents, who appreciated my writing, but they had thought I was trying to do too much, and wanted me to write a simpler book. I had to tune out all these voices and return to the work and my vision. The heart of my book is the connections between these seemingly disparate threads.

Several years back, my friend Geeta Kothari, nominated me for the Aspen Summer Words Emerging Writing Fellowship. One of the judges that year was an acquiring editor at Milkweed Editions and she had reached out separately to see if I was working on a book and thought that Milkweed might be a good home. What I really loved was how she saw the fullness and possibility of the book- and how it connected family history, water and animals together.

I finally found and editor and press who appreciated this vision, and I got my agent after.

We all find our own way and it’s important to learn how to become the best advocate for your work in the process.

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Story Questions

You begin Governing Bodies with a poem that ends in: “What harms one body harms all bodies./ Like tributaries to the same river, our stories are entwined.” This is a memoir about confluences, about the ways your story intersects with others’. For those who haven’t read it yet, can you explain the significance of confluences to the book?

Confluences are at the heart of this book. The book sits at so many confluences: prose and poetry, art and science, personal and planetary grief. I weave family history, the rights of animals and the memory of water. The book is also structured like the Triveni Sangam—the confluence of three rivers. Each part is written as a letter. One to my paternal grandfather who like me studied civil engineering and later pursued activism, the second to my late father who shared my fondness for writing and animals, and the third to the reader.

Towards the end of the book, you wrote, “The river reminds you to be a storyteller and that your story is not just for you.” When did you realize that you wanted to write a memoir? How did you gain the confidence to know that your story was worth sharing?

I started an MFA program at Hunter College after Satya Magazine closed. At the time, I thought I was going to write a more traditional narrative nonfiction or journalistic book. Perhaps like a vegan version of Michael Pollan or Eric Schlosser. I had the deep pleasure of studying with Louise DeSalvo who founded the program in memoir. I loved Louise’s take on memoir as an ethical and moral imperative. She also instilled upon us that memoir is a corrective to history.

Memoir was the way I could connect all the subjects I wanted to connect, because I was the link between them all. Memoir is also a way of tracing the way we think and the connections we make. It is governed by association more than chronology and can function like poetry. While I was writing a memoir and a personal story, it was always a story about connection to the larger world. It is this confluence between the self and the world that is of great interest to me.

There is often a lot of misunderstanding of the genre of memoir. I wanted to reclaim it as literature that helps make meaning of our lives and bear witness to these times. It can also hold history, poetry, essay, epistolary, reportage within it. Like water, it is so expansive.

I’ve tried so many times to come up with a question about your choice to write the book mostly in present tense. I want to connect it to the constant yet ever-changing nature of rivers; to lineages, to “how they go both ways” by keeping “our deceased ancestors alive”; to divination, to how we look to the past to divine the future, to how we look to the earth to divine meaning in life. Instead of trying to weave all that together, I’ll just ask: Why present tense?

In my book, I connect different times and places and generations, and geologic epochs. QM Zhang, a writing mentor, said “we think of memory as a creature of the past, yet it lives in the present.”

While I look at the past and go back decades, centuries, and even millennia, my view is shaped by the present and where I’m standing. There’s also something about present tense related to the shape of the rivers. The present tense captured the flow of the book, and I was able to move and meander with it.

Upon learning that your grandfather taught his children classic British literature, such as Shakespeare and Tennyson, you wrote to him: “Initially, I find it curious how you, who quit the British in Burma to join the Freedom Movement in India, showered your children with the oppressor’s literature. But I now realize that relationships are complicated, and perhaps noncooperation need not apply to poetry.” Carrying on your grandfather’s tradition, you reference other writers throughout the book. Even if their words aren’t related to animal rights or your own life experiences, you absorb them and impart your own meaning onto them. Do you think our movement could be more effective if we read more, read broadly, and read with intention?

Absolutely. Reading widely and broadly has been such a gift to my own work. When I worked at Satya magazine, we were looking at the linkages across many areas of social justice. I often find reading about other causes and activists, even if not specific to animals, has a resonance to animal rights, and there is always something we can learn from other areas. I also think literature holds the whole array of emotion and can carry fears, doubts, grief, desires and loves. We must navigate all these in animal rights and reading broadly can help us find ways to do that. Reading with intention and reading generously are also key. We should approach each text and look for possibilities which might expand our own thinking and storytelling. And even if we disagree strongly with a text, it can be helpful to recognize how that work helped clarify our own thoughts and feelings.

Do you think the animal rights movement makes effective use of storytelling as an activism technique? How could we better use stories to advocate for animals?

I think storytelling, literature, and art can be effective tools in activism. Its success is difficult to measure and document, so the results are often invisible. All I know is how meaningful literature has been for me. I have been impacted by the writings of others from other times and centuries. We may not know when or where or how our words will reach who they need to reach, but we must put them out there.

You wrote, “Do not make a scene. You have to make a scene. So much of activism is toggling between these two states.” How can animal advocates find a sustainable balance between these states in their own lives?

This is something all of us navigate in almost every moment. We read the room and the audience and must decide what each moment demands of us. We make mistakes along the way and learn from them. Whether making a scene or not making a scene, I am leaning towards generosity and vulnerability versus judgement or cleverness.

I felt increasingly anxious as I read the chapter in which you visited a chicken slaughterhouse in India. In earlier chapters, animal exploitation and suffering came up, but this was the first time we, through you, were going to actually see some of the world’s worst animal cruelty for ourselves. Almost as if I were there, I wanted to turn away and spare myself, and I dreaded flipping to the next page as you progressed through the slaughterhouse. You generated all these feelings in me without ever showing the chickens’ slaughter. How can writers evoke those kinds of emotions in their readers without hitting them over the head with depictions of animal suffering?

I thought about this a lot. This was the challenge for me, who as a writer and witness, did not want to stay in these places of horror. I also did not want to look away. How do we look and protect our hearts? It was important for me to create a kind of sanctuary for my reader too. If you look at the rivers in the table of contents, there are these rock islands where I have shorter, more meditative chapters, that often come after witnessing difficult material. I have moments of pause within the page. I want to be inviting and generous towards my reader who I am asking to come with me on this sorrow-filled journey.

Your process of relearning Tamil changed how you think about other areas of your life. In what ways does language — both the literal language we speak and the words we choose to use in that language — influence the way we all think about the world?

Language is so connected to how we think of the world. We are losing so many ancient languages, and I am worried about all the knowledges they contain that may be lost. In my research into Tamil, I learned about an ecological grammar that was contained within the language itself. In another book, I recently read, Marginlands by Arati Kumar-Rao, she writes about a community in an arid area, that only gets 40 days of rain a year, and yet they have 40 different words for clouds.

In my book I draw from words in other languages that convey this connection to the world more deeply than I know English to be capable of.

As I read, I was in awe of how connected to the world you are, and I began to feel ashamed of how disconnected I am. But then I realized that wasn’t true. I may not have been to the same places, studied the same languages or histories or literature, but I’m connected to the world in different ways. And in these ways, I, and we all, can find more connections with others, with the world and all its inhabitants. How can readers recognize, appreciate, and learn from the confluences in their own lives?

We all are so connected. In our workplaces I am hoping we can take down silos between disciplines or groups. There is so much we can learn from each other.

There is a Japanese primatologist I write about in the book—Kinji Imanishi. His approach to science was different that many in the west. Instead of focusing on differences, he was looking for connections with all the other beings, and by doing so, he recognized their cultures.

During my book talks, I have been experimenting with an audience confluence activity, where I give the audience a few minutes to interact with a person they don’t know and chat about something that resonated with them or why they came. I found that these strangers found connection even only having a few minutes to chat. Confluence are generative, they continue to provide more connections

Your acknowledgements has to be one of the longest I’ve read in any book. It’s like a confluence in itself, a coming together of all the names of people who aided you on this journey. How important is community to writing, activism, life, everything?

Acknowledgments are my favorite thing! I love reading book acknowledgments. I introduce a concept in my book that a Burmese water activist shared with me: Kalyanamitra. It means spiritual friend or co-worker, and the premise is that two people meditating side by side is more powerful than each doing it alone. I called my Acknowledgments section, “My Kalyanamitra,” listing all the people who have sat alongside me on this journey. Writing is a very solitary act, but we don’t do it alone. Same with activism. What has given me strength and courage is finding that group of people who see you, bear witness to your life and labors, and with whom I can share both daily delights and deep sorrow with. All this work, whether it be writing or activism, can be very difficult and lonely, but it’s also necessary. We need community to support each other doing this vital labor.

You wrote that Next of Kin was your “Spark Book,” the book that started your journey that led to the publication of Governing Bodies. It prompted two questions for you: “How can we learn about, and from, other animals without harming them? How do we repair the harm we have already caused other species?” So, how can we do those things?

These are the questions I carry with me every day and ones I will likely be trying to answer for all the days that come. In my book I discuss three concepts that have been my guideposts. One is satya, or truth. Part of this is always orienting towards seeking truth and holding multiple truths. Another is ahimsa, or this absence of a desire to cause harm. Living with compassion, empathy, and generosity are key. And the final, is what I discussed above, Kalyanamitra and fostering this community because we can’t do this alone.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

Website: sangamithraiyer.com

Substack: literaryanimal.substack.com

Social media: @literaryanimals

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I stumbled across Carlie Sorosiak’s Always, Clementine when browsing my library’s website. (Need I reiterate that libraries are places of magic?) The cover instantly hooked me, with its little gray mouse peeking out from behind a queen on a chessboard. I had intended to read the book purely for personal enjoyment, but the more I read, the surer I was that I needed to discuss this story with Carlie herself.

Written in letters from Clementine the mouse to her best friend, Rosie, a chimp, she details how she and another mouse were snuck out of a lab where the scientists were breeding mice to have superior levels of human intelligence. The pair find themselves in the care of a young human boy named Gus and his grandfather, Pop. With the scientists hunting through the town to recapture the rodents, the group realizes the only way to protect themselves is to show off Clementine’s genius to the world by way of a high-stakes chess game. Mature readers may be tempted to overlook middle-grade novels as light or frivolous, but Always, Clementine proves them wrong in every way. Let’s discuss!

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

Animals have always been my best friends. My parents cared a great deal about the welfare of animals, so growing up, I was surrounded by a stream of rescue pets. I can’t think of a better childhood. One of those animals, Sally, was a German short-haired pointer who lived next door (before we ended up adopting her). As a kid, I used to go out and read her picture books through the fence. For me, animals and books have always been intertwined.

I wrote my first full novel between the ages of 9 and 12. There were a lot of horses in it, but not much happened! I worked on my craft bit by bit, and now I’m the proud author of 13 published works.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

At 12 years old, when I finished my first novel, I sent it off to Scholastic in the US. The children’s editor there was incredibly kind. He wrote me back a letter saying that, while they weren’t going to publish my book today, maybe I’d grow up to be a writer. I became quite determined then. Many years later, Scholastic published Roar Like a Lion, my first non-fiction book for kids. A real full-circle moment for me!

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I think that storytelling is one of the truest ways to wiggle into someone’s heart. And, since I write mostly for kids, it’s great to have an appreciation for animals that can extend well into adult life. Animal advocacy happens on a person-by-person basis, for me. On the weekends, I volunteer at my local cat shelter, as an adoptions counselor, and find that there’s a great deal of storytelling there, too. You have to tell potential adopters all about a specific kitty in a memorable way that will resonate with them.

You’ve written books for all ages. Does your writing approach change at all depending on the audience?

In every genre, I start with the spark of an idea, then brain dump everything I can think of into a Word document. From there, I start the “real” process of writing. However, my adult work is largely focused on romance, which my work for younger readers does not cover in the same way!

As a traditionally published author, do you have any insights into how the publishing industry feels, generally, toward stories with animal rights themes?

I think that children’s literature, especially, is very sympathetic towards animal rights issues. I have had nothing but positive interactions with people who care deeply about animals. Publishers, in general, are very compassionate human beings.

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Story Questions

Most novels about animals or featuring animal protagonists (or at least the ones I’ve read) avoid making any sort of commentary on animal rights. Very few concern an issue as major as animal testing, and even fewer call for reform, as you did in both the story and more directly in your author’s note. What made you want to write a book about animal testing? Did you consider writing about any other animal rights issues?

When I was in kindergarten, my teacher was a member of PETA. With them, she broke into a science lab and stole the rabbits. She brought one of them in the classroom, with the research tag still in the rabbit’s ear, and said . . . Can anyone bring her home? My mother stepped up. Strawberry came to live with us. My family didn’t have a lot of money at the time, but my mom still paid $100 at the vet to have the research tag snipped out of Strawberry’s ear. My mom said that she wanted Strawberry to know what it meant to feel free. She lived in our kitchen, and in our backyard, until she passed away from the residual effects of the experiments she endured. From then on, I think it was inevitable that I would write a book about animal testing. I was focused on that particular issue, to give Strawberry (and animals like her) a louder voice.

The researchers go on TV at one point to humane-wash the heck out of their experiments. They use the same tactics of all exploitative animal industries — agriculture, entertainment, fashion, etc — to try to pull the (sometimes literal) wool over the public’s eyes by claiming both that their animals are happy and that their (ab)use of them is essential for humankind. (They of course fail to address if using them at all is ever beneficial to the animals, or if such a high cost is really worth the paltry benefits humans might see.) What sort of research did you do to understand the humane-washing tactics of animal use industries?

I spent a great deal of time on animal activist websites. But honestly, my biggest form of research was the rhetoric I absorbed from witnessing factory farming in Kansas. Part of my family lives there, and I will never forget the experience of driving by feedlot after feedlot, dirty and stuffed to the brim with cows, and thinking about every argument that people use to justify that kind of terrible existence.

A researcher claims on TV that the “history of medicine is the history of animal testing.” I guess he failed to recognize that “history” means it’s something of the past. When do you think (or hope) humans’ exploitation of other species in this way will finally come to an end?

I would love to say “tomorrow.” I hope it ends tomorrow. But realistically, I just don’t know. I’m incredibly hopeful that the technological advances over the next five to ten years will mean a brighter future for animals.

I was a little surprised that everyone except the researchers seemed to be on Clementine’s side, even the news anchors. But then I remembered how much people love animal rescue stories, even if their actions — such as buying products tested on animals — don’t always align with their values. Why do animals inspire you to write, and why do you think our love of them is so instinctive?

I can understand why you might find that surprising, at first. I think, in children’s books, the majority of the characters have to align with how a child might feel — and kids are always on the side of animals, in my experience. That’s part of the reason I love writing for the middle-grade age group. I’m forgetting where I read this, but someone once wrote that children do intrinsically know how to relate to animals. You don’t have to tell kids to move slowly by a terrarium with a turtle inside it; they just know. I think I’ve managed to hold onto my child-self quite strongly, and perhaps that’s why the love is instinctive. I look at animals, and I don’t think “other.” I think “equal.”

From a craft perspective, animals are inspirational, because they experience the world — generally speaking — through different senses. Writing from a dog’s perspective means thinking with my nose, for example. It tends to flip sensory description on its head.

When Clementine reflects on Hamlet’s inability to escape the maze in the lab, she thinks that “maybe Hamlet is smarter than anyone gives him credit for. The longer he failed at the maze, the longer he was free.” Gus echoes this thought later on, when he says that “there are all kinds of intelligences.” Your book shows that intellectual variation applies to both human and nonhuman animals. Why do you think we often use animals’ intelligence (as measured on a stereotypically human scale) as reasoning for why they should or shouldn’t deserve moral consideration? And did you worry at all that readers would finish the book thinking that only especially “smart” animals like Clementine deserve to be liberated from labs?

When I was researching my book A World of Dogs, I learned that researchers used to believe dogs didn’t have a sense of self. They didn’t know who they were. They couldn’t look in the mirror and say, “Hey, that’s me!” Of course, that isn’t true at all. Many years later, here comes the pee test. Dogs can pee on a patch of earth, come by later, and recognize their own scent. They can smell, “Hey, that’s me!” I think this is a perfect example of where humans get it wrong, as you say. We look at everything through our own lenses, because — as a whole — it puts us artificially at the top.

And yes, I did worry about that. I still worry about that, honestly. But I also think that child readers in particular will be able to morally work that out.

It feels like we know Rosie without even meeting her. The way Clementine describes how Rosie hoots and holds Clementine gently in her palm, gazing at her with kind, inquisitive eyes — this makes us feel like she’s our friend just as much as she is Clementine’s. How do you approach writing nonhuman characters in a way that humanizes, or personifies, them without overly anthropomorphizing them?

I am going to try not to write an essay here! I have many, many thoughts about why it is, in fact, potentially important to anthropomorphize animals just a little bit. But I rely mainly on body language. For Rosie, I watched dozens and dozens of hours of chimpanzee videos, both in the wild and in captivity, and tried to translate what I saw. Body language is universal, to me. Anyone can understand it, if they’re willing.

Before Gus knows the full extent of Clementine’s intelligence, he says to her, “You already are a person.” Bringing up the concept of animal personhood — which contends they are their own autonomous beings with interests and rights that should be protected — is often a surefire way for animal advocates to get laughed out of a room. When did you realize that nonhuman animals are also their own persons, even though we typically only reserve that esteemed title for our own species?

Oh, very young. Going back to Sally, one of my soul dogs, who I first met when I was six years old. It wouldn’t be impossible to interact with Sally and not think “that is a dog with a mind of her own.” She was so exuberant, and so highly sensitive. It has always just seemed obvious to me.

How was writing from a mouse’s perspective different from writing from a dog’s, cat’s, fox’s, or human’s perspective?

I thought very deeply about how fast she’d think and move, based on her elevated heartrate. I also had to consider scale in a way that I hadn’t before. Every small thing would be big to her!

Whenever I’m reading a book about animals, I’m analyzing how the writing influences readers to think about other species. As such, it was a pleasure to see Gus and Mei discuss how mice are often maligned in fiction (and I of course loved the meta element of them talking about this in a book that does the complete opposite!). Did you do any research on mouse representation in children’s literature, or were these references mostly based on your own reading experiences as a kid?

I never read Flowers for Algernon, because I knew how that book ended; and I knew it would break me. That was a big inspiration for Clementine — the idea that a mouse could have a happy ending. But yes, I did draw on my reading experiences as a kid. I also read quite a few mouse books in between drafts of Clementine, just to get an idea about what people might be expecting (and how I could potentially subvert those expectations).

Clementine thinks to Rosie, “If you write, you exist. If you’re writing your own story, then you’re telling your own story. You’re not letting anyone else say it for you.” How can we help animals tell their own stories?

Where I volunteer, an organization at Good Mews, each cat does have their own written story. A volunteer takes the time to meet each kitty, sometimes over the course of several weeks, sometimes several years, and listens while the cat communicates through body language; then, their story is written in their bio. I think that everything starts with listening.

Clementine begins her story in an anthropocentric frame of mind, thinking of herself as a “good lab mouse” whose existence is meant to serve humans, but as she meets humans who show her unconditional compassion, her perspective shifts. She sees that she “was born for something other than what I was bred for.” Has this book shifted any of your perspectives on animals?

I think that it’s more cemented rather than shifted my perspective. I had very clear goals for this book, and knew that Clementine’s character arc would reflect what I have come to believe over the course of my life.

This is one of my favorite lines from the book: “A lab mouse is obedient. A lab mouse has a purpose. A lab mouse is for science. But a lab mouse has a nose for sniffing and ears for hearing and eyes for seeing. A lab mouse has paws for playing chess and whiskers for catching dew and a tail for balancing on succulents. A lab mouse has a heart beating beneath her ribs.” What do you hope readers will take away from Clementine’s story?

Exactly that. I wanted readers to start looking at animals as individuals, not just pawns.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

I am on Instagram @carliesorosiak.

Any upcoming projects?

My next non-fiction book for kids, A World of Cats, will publish in the US at the end of this year.

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Today, we have a lovely, thought-provoking interview with Elizabeth Stiles, who’ll be discussing her debut novel, Safe Haven — Where Hope Lives. The story follows Michael, a man recently out of a job, who buys an old farmhouse in the countryside, and his daughter Brie. As the plot unfolds, Brie battles against bouts of intense illness that suddenly arise out of nowhere. This is the kind of book that tugs at every heartstring you have but leaves your heart stronger and fuller by its end. Enjoy!

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I’ve always had a deep love for animals. Growing up, there was never a time when I didn’t have a companion—whether it was a hamster, a cat, a dog, or even a horse for a few years. Animals have always been an important part of my life, and I truly can’t imagine living without them. They bring me hope, comfort, and a sense of connection that has shaped who I am. I discovered the joy of writing in fourth grade, when my teacher helped me publish Fin, my very first picture book. Its pages were cut from blue construction paper, its cover wrapped in bubbly aquamarine wallpaper, and though it was only presented at an interschool fair, the words and illustrations were mine. For a nine-year-old, it felt monumental. I’ve rediscovered that joy while weaving my love of storytelling and my passion for animals into narratives rich in character and emotional depth.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

I had dreamed of becoming a writer since childhood, but life initially carried me in other directions. At fifty, while searching for a way to make a meaningful difference in the lives of farmed animals, the idea of writing a book truly took root. One evening, a story came to me, but when I tried to capture it on paper, I realized I didn’t yet have the skills to do it justice. That realization became a turning point—I committed the next decade to honing my craft with guidance from creative writing experts, determined to bring Safe Haven to life in the most authentic and powerful way I could.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

The arts have the power to plant a seed that can grow into lasting change. A story, a painting, or a film can spark curiosity and compassion, inviting people to pause and reflect. Art can challenge assumptions, encourage us to question what we’ve been taught, and to see the world differently. It opens a window into perspectives we may never have considered—through the eyes of animals themselves. In doing so, the arts can become a catalyst for cultural transformation, shifting how we think and feel about animals. Ultimately, they help move society toward empathy, justice, and respect for all living beings.

Sharing our stories can sometimes feel more vulnerable than sharing our feelings. It’s like the stories we make up come from the deepest, most sensitive parts of ourselves. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors on gaining the confidence to share their work with others?

I once received advice that has stayed with me: cut a vein open and bleed all over the page. In other words, don’t hold back—write with honesty, vulnerability, and emotional investment. If you aren’t willing to pour yourself into the work, your reader won’t feel compelled to invest in it either. As you mentioned, sharing our stories can feel deeply vulnerable because they come from the most sensitive parts of ourselves. But that vulnerability is what makes them resonate. Confidence grows when you accept that your truth, however raw, is worth sharing—and that authenticity is what will connect you to your readers.

What are your reading habits, and how do they influence your own writing?

As a writer, I’ve found that reading takes on a different dimension. I’m not just enjoying a story—I’m studying how an author shapes their voice, crafts sentences, chooses words, and reveals character and plot. Every book becomes both inspiration and instruction. I try to read broadly, but most often I’m drawn to non-fiction for research and to fiction as a way of honing my craft. Both feed my writing in different ways: non-fiction grounds me in knowledge and context, while fiction sharpens my sense of style, rhythm, and emotional resonance.

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Story Questions

As activists, we often look to younger generations to be changemakers. Less entrenched in speciesism, we find hope that they will be the ones to end the atrocities we commit against animals. Is this where the inspiration for Brie’s character came from?

While my hope is that future generations will be changemakers, my inspiration for Brie’s character came elsewhere. After reading the first draft of Safe Haven, my mentor said, “You can talk about animal suffering to people until you’re blue in the face and they won’t listen. But talk about a child suffering and you’ve got their attention.” That’s when I knew I’d hit on something. If I could show the suffering of animals through the eyes of a child, perhaps readers would see it differently; maybe even question their own views. My deepest hope is that Brie’s perspective could encourage empathy that, in time, might translate into change.

In reading books for this interview series, I’m always interested to see how authors weave animal rights themes into their work. Some dive right in from the first page, while others slowly ease into it. How did you choose which approach to take?

I wanted to reach a broad audience, so I knew I had to ease into the themes rather than confront readers head-on. People are often resistant when they feel opinions are being forced upon them, so my focus was on telling a compelling story first. Along the way, I wanted to include snippets that might encourage reflection or open a door to empathy. I never expected to change minds overnight, but if readers begin to question their beliefs about the emotions and inner lives of all animals, then I feel I’ve accomplished my goal.

Without sanctuaries, this book may not exist. Were any of the animals in Brie’s haven inspired by animals you’ve met in real life?

Farm sanctuaries are truly at the heart of this book. My volunteer work at Sasha Farm in Michigan was the inspiration I needed to write the story. Being with the animals—witnessing their resilience and their capacity to love after all they’ve endured—was life-changing. Once you’ve had a rescued turkey sit in your lap and purr, you’ll never look at Thanksgiving the same way. The animal characters in Safe Haven are drawn from a collection of experiences rather than modeled on any single individual, and the same is true of the human characters, settings, and events. In the sequel, readers will gain an even deeper sense of what a sanctuary is and how vital these places are in changing hearts and minds.

One of the book’s themes is that love heals. In what ways have you seen the healing power of love in action?

The most incredible thing about love is its ability to heal on both sides. I’ve seen animals recover and thrive through the kindness of a gentle human hand, and I’ve seen humans find emotional healing through the unconditional love of animals. It’s truly a two-way street—each gives and receives in ways that transform both lives. These stories of mutual healing are everywhere, and they remind us that love is not only powerful, but endless in its capacity to restore hope.

On the flipside, violence begets violence. Cruelty inflicted upon animals often ricochets and hurts us as well. In spite of this, we have to remember Michael’s words: “You can’t change someone’s behavior by force. You have to convince them that what they’re doing is wrong.” When what’s happening to animals is so urgent and so dire, how can we remind ourselves to give others the grace to make their own decisions?

I’m so glad you picked up on that line—it’s one of my favorites because of the truth behind it. As a child, I loved animals, yet like many of us, I didn’t make the connection between that love and what was on my plate. Even when I began to question it, I continued eating animals because I was told it was considered socially acceptable. “Everyone does it.” It wasn’t until my thirties, while researching healthy diets, that I discovered the devastating impact of factory farming on both animals and the planet. I read Eating Animals and immediately eliminated meat, dairy, and eggs from my diet. Like most who’ve made the change, my only regret is not doing it sooner. What I’m trying to get at is that unless we were born vegan and have stayed the course, we shouldn’t judge those who haven’t yet ‘figured it out.’ Genuine change comes not from force, but from compassion. If you’re struggling to get someone to understand why you’re vegan, gift them a book like Jonathan Safran Foer’s Eating Animals, visit a farm sanctuary, and then have an open, non-confrontational, compassionate conversation. Those who are intent on harming animals even after knowing the truth are unlikely to change, so focus your time and energy elsewhere.

When deciding to make religion a major part of this story, how did you settle on Catholicism? Was there anything specific to Catholicism that made it a particularly good foil to Michael’s atheism?

I want to be clear that I have nothing against the Catholic faith. It simply fit the story in a way that created the right tension. Safe Haven was never intended to be a religious book or a debate about the existence of God. But I needed Michael to be an atheist so he would doubt that Brie’s gift was truly ‘miraculous.’ To heighten the conflict, I made Anna, Grace, Colin, and Mac Catholic, which provided a natural foil to his skepticism. If there’s any spiritual message I hoped to convey, it’s not about doctrine—it’s the belief that animals have souls and are worthy of our compassion.

I happened to read Safe Haven over Thanksgiving, which coincided with a pivotal scene in the book. Many important moments occurred on noteworthy days, like the summer solstice or Christmas Eve. As I reflect on the story now, I can’t help but think about how holidays were historically celebrated with feasts, often preceded by fasting, and that those feasts usually included animal flesh, something far less prevalent on dinner tables in the past than in modern times. Was the tradition of feasting on holidays at all an influence on the plot’s timeline?

My first draft actually opened around the Thanksgiving table, but my writing partners encouraged me to step back and spend more time developing Michael and Anna’s characters. Eventually, I reshaped that moment into the attempted killing of Coo, the turkey, for Thanksgiving dinner. That scene became pivotal, and even though it appeared later in the book, truly served as the inciting incident. It marked the beginning of Michael’s transformation and his awakening to the emotions and inner lives of animals. (Although if one argued that Brie’s conception was the inciting incident, I would not disagree.) Other holiday scenes helped anchor the reader in time, and were also used to drop subtle clues that Brie was a born vegan. And while I realized most people wouldn’t pick up on the clues, I’m confident those who are vegan for the animals will.

Those of us involved in animal advocacy regularly experience grief. There’s a constant low hum of loss through every daily action — generated by the knowledge that animals are being killed right this very second — and sometimes it becomes an overwhelming, inescapable roar. Did you channel those feelings at all as you wrote?

Oh, absolutely. It was incredibly difficult to sit with that grief day in and day out and not let it harden into anger. Sometimes all it takes is passing a semi full of pigs headed to slaughter or driving by the dairy farm near my home, where calves are kept chained in tiny plastic huts just feet from their mothers, and I’m overcome with tears. The sense of grief and helplessness can be overwhelming. But once I work my way through that pain, it becomes fuel—it propels me to ask, What can I do to make a difference for these animals? And for me, the answer is to write.

Hope can be hard to find, and those moments when we feel it can be fleeting. Where do you find hope, and how do you sustain it?

I volunteer at farm sanctuaries, hang out with people who have similar values, and play with my rescue dogs. Occasionally, I’ll watch uplifting videos on Facebook. Who cannot smile at The Moustache Farmer? And I write. About hope. Always about hope.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

Safe Haven — Where Hope Lives is available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble (digital only) and IngramSpark (print only).

My author website is Elizabeth-stiles.com, where I blog about farm sanctuaries.

Follow me on Facebook and Instagram.

Any upcoming projects?

I’m currently working on the sequel to Safe Haven and have a collection of short stories I’d like to publish.

Anything else you’d like to share?

If you read Safe Haven — Where Hope Lives, could you please leave me a review on Amazon? It gives the algorithm food for thought, which helps find others who might enjoy it too! Please contact me through my author website. I’d love to hear what you thought of the book. And, if you sign up for my newsletter, I’ll send you a free short story that highlights the life of dairy cows.

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We’re mixing things up a bit today with a special, festive, musical interview with Martin, the man behind Vystopia. His Spirit of Christmas album links the calls for peace on earth in traditional holiday music with a vegan ethic. After all, true compassion knows no species. In addition to creating festive animal rights tunes, Martin donates the profits to animals in need, totaling around €3,300 in donations so far. Without further ado, let’s begin!

Music Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and music?

The name is Martin and I’m 49 years of age. I haven’t eaten meat since 2000 and I’ve been vegan for the animals since 21st of November 2011. In other words, I’m just about to celebrate my 14th veganniversary. And yes, going vegan is one of the best decisions I ever made.

I’m the younger brother of two, and while he has the whole kit with family house and two cats, I’m single and live in a flat. It’s not how I pictured life at this stage, but it’s surprisingly hard to find a vegan woman who also wants a family.

And. I’m a musician. Not by profession but by heart and soul. For me, life is music and music is life. It’s a rare thing that a day goes by without composing, recording, playing & singing or listening to music. Creating music is one of the moments in life when I feel most alive. It’s a joy and adventure not comparable to anything else, as creating something has a soul of its own.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

Art in general, and music specifically, holds the power of non-violent revolutions! Art has so many layers of the human expression from the inner naked truth of a person to the freedom of speech as a community. Art can reflect all of our human emotions and inspire others to insight and action. It also has the power of crossing boundaries and connecting people who otherwise might never have met or would not understand each other. So, I would say art is an extremely important form of activism as it is a universal language.

Unfortunately, the support within the movement is surprisingly scarce. Vegan musicians should have 10’s of thousands of streams each month. But maybe if you work your a** off you’ll reach that in a year. For my part, I have traveled and played in UK, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, met numerous vegans and activists, yet the number of monthly streams remains pretty much unaltered. It’s not a complaint. It’s just a sad and discouraging truth experienced by far more artists than just me. For me, it came to the point that I had to pause my project this year as the gain (what I got back) didn’t come close to the input and effort I’ve made. And all I wanna do is help the animals.

For those unfamiliar with the term, can you explain what “vystopia” means? What about the word resonates with you?

When I first learned about the word in August 2021, it spoke to me without even knowing what it meant. When I learned its meaning, I felt it might be one of the most important words there is, as it explains the view of the world from a vegan’s perspective so that it

1. may help vegans know that what we experience is a completely normal reaction and that we’re not alone.

2. might help a non-vegan understand that being vegan goes far deeper than just not wanting to eat or wear something. That it is a reaction based on values and feelings from someone who sees and understands that injustice is not just something that can happen to humans.

The term is coined by the Australian psychotherapist and author Clare Mann and can be explained in short:

“The anguish of being vegan in a non-vegan world.”

Or with a bit more depth:

“An existential crisis experienced by vegans, arising out of an awareness of the trance-like collusion with a dystopian world.”

In “Christmas Blues,” you reference the carnage you witnessed on an ordinary Christmas table in 2015. Is that what inspired you to create your own vegan-themed holiday music?

The inspiration for the first animal rights Christmas song arose from me getting the line “Please let me introduce myself, I am your host, I’m your Christmas Ghost of your past and present” in my head in the beginning of 2023. I completed the song in April the same year and it was released on World Vegan Day, the 1^st of November, the same year.

Regarding “Christmas Blues (I don’t eat my friends)” — which is based on my very own experience of Christmas back in 2015, as the lyrics tell — the song coming to life has one of the more unique stories for me as a songwriter. One week after I launched “Christmas Ghost” for release, I woke up with a melody in my head. I sat down and started writing and in just 2 hours the song was done. It was still November and I couldn’t imagine waiting another year for it to be released. So, I did something I’ve never done before and managed in just 2 weeks to write, record and with help from my friend Richard Corbett also mixed, mastered and released it on the 21^st of November.

Which comes first, the lyrics or the music?

The phase of composing a tune is different from song to song, but most of the time a melody and a short phrase comes at the same time and then I build from there. Sometimes I only have a melody and I decide for a theme or direction I wanna go with the lyrics. It can also be that I have a phrase I really like and then I play with melodies until I find something catchy, but that last one is a rare thing. Maybe one in 20 songs.

In “Christmas Ghost,” you ask that others celebrate Christmas with each and every kind in mind. In what ways would you like your listeners to embody the true spirit of Christmas?

Christmas is a time for joy and celebration. A time for kindness and caring with family and friends. Right? So, how could we possibly embody this tradition by separating and killing other families!? We need to recognize that it’s not only humans who have families, friends and feel joy or sadness. We all wanna live a life that is good.

So, “Put you money where your mouth is,” or even simpler, even though it might be a bit of a cliché — “Treat others as you want to be treated.”

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your music online?

Through this Hyperfollow link, you can find my social media and my music on the bigger streaming platforms.

GoFundMe — support my 10-song animal rights album.

Any upcoming projects?

I have two projects.

• An acoustic 3-song single.

• A full-length album (10 songs).

Apart from that, it looks like I might have two gigs in 2026 ready.

• The Great Vegan Gathering in the UK in August.

• And a revisit to Vegan Pride Day in Konstaz, Germany, in September.

Anything else you’d like to share?

In this era of AI music, please support REAL musicians and especially Animal Rights Musicians! Writing prompts and bypassing those beautiful moments of creation and creativity is nothing but destructive, soulless lunacy.

“Art from the heart — not from an algorithm.”

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Today, we have Jodie Barchha Lang here to discuss not only her picture book, Nero the Brave Little Bull, but also a topic that doesn’t get enough attention in the animal rights movement: petting farms (also known as petting zoos to us Americans). I really love these kids’ book interviews because kids are the ones who need to hear messages of compassion the most. From such a young age, they’re taught that animals are morally inferior, that they exist to be used by humans. Thank goodness for authors like Jodie who are showing children that there’s a more humane path.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals?

I started Green vegan (@greenvegan1) on Instagram back in 2019. Initially just Vegan Food, it developed into much more — animal education, advice, support, stories, talks and interviews. I started doing talks all over the country; at universities and events, wrote the Nero the Brave Little Bull book, produced the documentary “Petting Farm Truth” and increased my advocacy for the animals. I have always loved animals since I was a child. I grew up in a house where there was always some kind of creature that needed help or assistance. I am a great believer that animals speak to those who know how to listen, and for those who don’t know, it’s our job to help them hear. As a human race we have made animals such a commodity that we don’t even recognise their sentience anymore.

They are someone, not something. My passion is advocating and helping people develop compassion for animals so that they can have a better future and I have recently started an initiative called Sanctuary Share Day on Facebook; an international event where sanctuaries from all over the world can come together and share their content.

Have you always wanted to be a writer?

Not at all, Nero the Brave Little Bull came about because I wanted to be a voice for Nero, to share his story, to tell his truth. I feel if I know something, and lots of other people don’t, it is my responsibility to share it. Education is power.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I believe the arts has a massive role in making change for animals.

A favourite artist of mine is Vegan Queen V, an inspirational musician whose songs have changed people’s views on animals for the better.

A particularly heart wrenching song is “What Hell is Like” from her Freedom Warrior album. It is impossible for something not to touch your heart and mind after hearing. Vegan Queen V is also part of the inspiration behind the newly launched Animal Rights Choir.

Do you have any favorite fictional stories with vegan themes?

I’ve read a few fictional books but I think my all time favourites are actually the nonfiction ones. Two in particular I highly recommend are Billy Thompson’s books, Earth Boy and The Animal in Me both. Tales of an entire life’s worth of rescue stories which once you pick up, you can’t put down. I wont say anymore, I’ll let you read for yourself!

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Story Questions

Can you tell us a bit about Nero, the calf who inspired this story? How has he changed since first arriving at FARS?

I could tell you about Nero all day long, there are so many true tales of this wonderful creature. Nothing has changed much since he was at his first home Fars Sanctuary, he has remained a cheeky chappy! He moved from Fars to the Retreat Sanctuary to be with more of his own kind, and the staff there love him. He has such a big personality. Two particular tales are — there was a storytime event at the Retreat and, shortly after, the children got to go and meet Nero. There was a little girl who was only 4 and she was trying to reach to touch him. He recognised this and he bent down to her so she could reach, everyone was in tears! Another tale was just recently when Nero decided he wanted to be in a field he wasn’t supposed to be in. When staff came to move him he had a face like a naughty school child and instantly went the way he was directed, no arguments! Nero is described as a gentle giant. He is such a loveable character, albeit cheeky, and very intelligent!

What was it specifically about Nero’s story that inspired you to develop it into a book? And why a picture book?

I think pictures tell a thousand words, the beauty of this book is that people read it and then at the end get to see real life pictures of Nero that the drawings were based on, something that really helps people connect with Nero and his journey. Although originally developed for children, there are adults that have also bought this book. I also felt there are not enough children’s books out there of this nature.

How did you come to work with your illustrator, Karolina Małolepsza?

Karolina baked some cakes for a fundraiser I was doing to help with the cost of an operation Nero had to have on his eye. We got chatting and the rest is history!

A gifted artist, her drawings are what made the book. She even spent time with Nero and I think her drawings capture his energy and personality perfectly.

The average person likely thinks petting farms are innocuous. What are some of the problems with petting farms, and why should people choose to visit an animal sanctuary instead?

We do have a documentary inspired by Nero’s Journey that covers this. It is called #pettingfarmtruth — you can search it online. Sadly, many people do not realise that most of the time animals on petting farms are recycled. Lamb feeding season is a commercial entity and it is these events that we need to stop and question — why are there so many lambs? Why are we bottle feeding them? Where are their mothers? Why is there a continuous rotation of baby animals? The important thing is that we are not judgemental and help educate. Many people innocently do not know information if they have not been made aware of it.

Getting to know an animal is one of the most rewarding experiences one can have. How has your relationship with cows and other sanctuary animals changed over the years, and how has that influenced your activism?

I am ashamed to say that I used to be one of those people that saw cows in a field and thought they were unintelligent. I was so wrong. I now know that cows are one of the most intelligent creatures there are. They form strong emotional bonds with each other, recognise faces after long periods of time and are family caregivers.

I feel a bond with animals now stronger than ever, I hear them, I see them, more than I ever did before. I am thankful for the experiences I have had with Nero. He has given me the most wonderful life in that he has taught not only me so much, but has inspired me to go on and teach others.

In what ways would you like to see the animal advocacy community better utilize sanctuaries in activism?

Education is an amazing tool, there is so much misinformation circulating in the mainstream about animals and farming practices. I believe sanctuaries play a key role in teaching and developing compassion and respect for animals. While there are a lot of sanctuaries already doing this work, I’d like to see more engagement and visits organised by schools so that children from all walks of life have an opportunity to learn about animals, to spend time with them and get to know them as individuals, as they might a dog or cat.

Can you tell us about Nero’s song, “Nero the Hero”?

(Can I stop to smile from ear to ear here?)

I was in conversation with a great friend, teacher and wonderful advocate for animals, Michelle St John, founder of VinE (Veganism in Education) — which specialises in educational resources to encourage compassionate and meaningful connections with animals from an early age — about a Nero song to go with the book. She immediately came up with “Nero the Hero” and it was decided there and then. We then handed it over to the incredible singer-songwriter Vegan Queen V, co-founder of the Animal Rights Choir (ARC), and she worked her magic to bring Nero to life through song. We recently performed it at Vegan Camp Out, which was an unforgettable moment; there was so much energy and the response was incredible, with many parents getting in touch to say both they and their children were singing it days later. We are hopefully going to work on producing it so it is available for all to enjoy but, for now, there is a sneak peek available on my Instagram @greenvegan1.

How have readers — young or old, vegan or non-vegan — responded to Nero’s story?

(Can I stop to wipe happy tears?)

The response to Nero’s story has been overwhelming. I’d originally planned on selling a few books, but he has gone on to inspire a documentary, a song, podcast interviews, radio and newspaper stories. His book has spread far and wide to not only Europe but also Australia, America and Sweden.

Children from all over the country arrive at the Retreat Sanctuary with their book to meet Nero and hopefully go and tell all their friends! But, most importantly, Nero’s story has made people stop and question petting farms and has inspired them to educate their children around animals in a much more ethical way, directing them to support sanctuaries and the wonderful work they do.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

There are lots of articles and podcasts that can be seen by simply searching “Nero the Brave Little Bull” as well as details about where to purchase the book. I am on Instagram as @greenvegan1 and the Petting Farm Truth documentary can also be found online by searching #pettingfarmtruth.

• #nerothebravelittlebull on social media

• #pettingfarmtruth on social media

• Visit Nero at Retreat Animal Sanctuary Kent

• Sanctuary Share Day

Any upcoming projects?

We are hopefully going to be able to produce and release the “Nero the Hero” song.

I have started to write another book and am in talks about potentially making a documentary. There’s always a project in the making!

Anything else you’d like to share?

I just want to share gratitude and thanks. People often congratulate me on the work I’ve done but without the surrounding community, friends, volunteers, colleagues, people who have shared our content, donated or supported in other ways, none of this would exist. Supporting each other is key — at times we may have artistic differences, fall out, disagree, but if we keep the end goal in mind, the reason, the why, which is that we are doing all this for the animals, then everything else becomes irrelevant.

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You may know Henry Lien as the author of the delightful middle-grade series Peasprout Chen, but his latest book, Spring, Summer, Asteroid, Bird, is an essential read for writers. Through helpful examples, Henry breaks down the art of East Asian storytelling. As you’ll see in my questions below, I think this is truly a game-changing book. Whether you’re a fan of the three-act structure common in Western stories, learning about other methods of storytelling can never hurt. In fact, it can only help.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I’m a writer from Taiwan now living in Los Angeles, CA (both of which have superb vegan restaurants, BTW). I became vegan after watching the Oscar-winning documentary The Cove on the plane up to Clarion West Writers Workshop in Seattle, where I got my writing training. So animals and writing have been intertwined for me from the outset.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

When I looked in the mirror one day back in 2012 and saw a 42-year old man with a receding hairline who had always wanted to be a writer but who had never done anything about it and who liked the idea of reincarnation but wasn’t convinced it was real, so he realized he had better step it up if he wanted to make the most of the only life he was likely to ever have.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

We are wired as a species to receive information more emotionally and therefore more permanently through story. I first went vegetarian after seeing the film Babe. Stories reach us in a way that few other things can.

I’ve found that many vegan authors don’t talk about veganism much on social media (and there are probably tons of authors nobody even knows are vegan because they hide it so well!). You don’t make it the main feature of your feed, but you don’t shy away from it either, even asking your followers to go vegan for the day on your birthday. Why is it important to you to share your veganism with your followers, and do you ever worry about losing followers/readers because of it?

As an author, my brand is fun, enthusiasm, and joy. That’s also how I approach my vegan activism. Even though more strident approaches are powerful and necessary, we need all approaches. My approach has to do with showing how much joy veganism and animals bring me and using humor and my natural charisma and staggering sex appeal to help animals. And folks seem to treat my vegan posts as just an extension of the genuine me so I’ve only gotten enthusiastic responses.

As a vegan reader, vegan/vegetarian characters in books often feel like elements of surface diversity. Rather than “a Western story in non-Western drag,” as you put it in Spring, Summer, Asteroid, Bird, they can feel like non-vegan characters in vegan drag. I never want to dissuade writers from creating plant-based characters, but it can be frustrating to only see vegans represented as stereotypes—the crunchy hippie, the woke activist—rather than fully formed people. Do you think vegan representation is something that even matters in fiction, and do you have any advice for non-vegan authors to create more realistic vegan/vegetarian characters?

First, for all you non-vegan authors who have included vegan characters in your book that aren’t negative or snide depictions, thank you! Even if you don’t get it totally right, thank you! Second, the best approach is to have a chat with some vegans. I’m happy to chat with ANY non-vegan author who would like to do some research on an actual vegan in the wild. Barring that, my best advice is to have more than one vegan character in your book and have them disagree passionately about both things that have to do with their veganism and things that have zero to do with their veganism. No community is a monolith and by simply utilizing the above tip, you broadcast that no one person has to bear the burden of representing an entire population and you’re already so much further along in embracing complexity in your depiction. And thank you for trying and caring, dear non-vegan author ally!

So many writers dream of one day seeing their names on a book cover. Your debut novel, and its sequel, even featured blurbs from the New York Times on the front covers—WOW! How did it feel to see your name on a book for the first time?

It was pretty rad. But not as rad as getting to read a type of book that I literally couldn’t find anywhere else (which includes having a vegan theme). Now that sounds pretty conceited, but I’m leaving it because I do believe in the maxim, “Do what you love, and the rest will come.”

How does your writing process differ for novels versus short fiction?

It doesn’t. It’s just a matter of scale. Like cooking Japanese vegan curry spaghetti for one person versus for eight people. So maybe that means that I’m a bad novelist or bad short fiction writer. Or both.

Many of your stories have subtle vegan themes. How does veganism influence your creative process as you develop a story?

Well, my stories are very, very me. Plus, when one is awakened to the realities of humanity’s relationship with animals and the pervasiveness and inescapability of reminders of it, it’s hard to unsee it and thus, it’s artificial to remove it from whatever I’m writing about.

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Story Questions

You’ve said that you wrote Spring, Summer, Asteroid, Bird because you wanted to see fresh stories in Western markets. What can the average reader (or listener or viewer), who likely has little to no knowledge of the intricacies of plot structure, gain by consuming a broader range of story structures?

Dear average reader/viewer/listener/gamer who has little experience with story structure, do you enjoy fangirling about your fave books, films, shows, games? Well, so do I. Just think of this book as my doing that at book length. It’s fun to not just talk about what we love but to try to articulate why we love it. And part of why I love films like Parasite and Everything Everywhere All at Once, Haruki Murakami books, and Nintendo games is because of their structure.

How can studying different forms of storytelling normalize more diverse or unconventional stories in popular culture?

When gatekeepers like agents and editors realize that stories in these seemingly unsellable structures have already proven to be wildly popular in the West but Westerners just didn’t realize they were told in an an Asian storytelling structure, it defuses some resistance.

Literary agents are overworked as it is, and query letters that don’t meet their expectations can be swiftly dropped in the slush pile. Do you have any advice for how aspiring authors can hook agents in their queries, especially for those whose stories follow non-Western plot structures?

First, don’t mention the act structure. I’ve never mentioned to my agents or editors that I’ve been working in a non-Western story structure. The story either works or doesn’t on its own merits. If it works, the gatekeeper will see what they want to see, including with regard to structure. An editor prasied one of my four-act structure works as a superb example of the three-act structure. [Imagine here a zippered mouth emoji.] Regarding query letters, I think the best way to write a killer query letter is, unfortunately, to write a killer book. And the best way to write a killer book is, unfortunately, to be merciless in deciding what story to write in the first place. I know that’s not helpful but I do believe that the most important early work an author can do is to be extremely selective in deciding what idea to write and being honest about whether that idea is unique enough to pursue. And then if the answer is no, aiming your firepower at brainstorming fresh ideas. I teach classes on that actually. It’s an underappreciated superpower.

I felt so seen when you wrote about how the emphasis on individualism and specialness in Western literature can harm kids’ image of themselves. In “Malia and the Magic Paintbrush,” you created a compelling main character while staying true to the theme that “[b]eing Chinese is about community.” How can writers develop memorable protagonists while focusing on collectivism rather than individualism?

Wow, thanks for seeking out that story. That was commissioned by Apple TV in connection with their Emmy-award winning series Ghostwriter and based on Chinese lore, so I had a limited footprint within which to maneuver. I’m glad that you found that it successfully conveyed the community theme. Regarding creating memorable protagonists while focusing on collectivism, look at the things that necessarily require cooperation. Heists. Bands. Team sports. Look at the personalities within stories about these three things. Look, in particular at Leigh Bardugo’s fantasy heist duology SIX OF CROWS/CROOKED KINGDOM. That’s a master class on how to emphasize community while also creating differentiated and unforgettable individual characters.

You wrote in Spring that “stories are empathy engines.” How do you think fictional stories can/do influence the way people treat animals?

I think they are perhaps the most powerful tool we have to convey meaning and expand a mind, and that includes with regard to animals.

I’m always surprised to see any sort of animal rights theme in a traditionally published novel, and you managed to do it with a Big Five publisher in the Peasprout Chen series. Did your agent/editor have any notes on that small but important part of Peasprout’s story? How have readers responded to it?

We toned down the graphicness of the depictions of what is done to animals, since the readers could be as young as eight years old and also not in a position to control their own diets. But I made sure that the veganism was critical as a character point (i.e., the kindest character in the book is vegan, and he demonstrates it with his treatment of animals) and that’s how I was able to build it integrally into the novel. I did that purposefully to make it seem to be about the human character and minimize the possibility of an editor pressuring me to remove it from the novel. It worked. As stated above, people see what they want to see.

The Peasprout books take place at a martial arts school, and there are many competitions between the students across the books. How do you keep the action sequences fresh and exciting?

I worked very hard at them. I made sure that their dynamics, visuals, scenecraft, environment, etc. were all differentiated and escalated. I had to treat the task as if I were the director, fight choreographer, production designer, and editor of a film. It was a ton of work.

What’s the key to an effective cliffhanger?

Great question — the bad cliffhanger is to pose a question and then not answer it. The good cliffhanger is to pose a question, then answer it, but then open the door to show the vast, uncontemplated consequences of that answer.

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Closing Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

Website: henrylien.com

Facebook

Instagram

Twitter

Bluesky

Any upcoming projects?

Yes!! But I can’t share publicly yet. If you connect with me via my website or social media, I’ll be spraying you with info about it when I can. And yeah, the main character is vegan and actually, every character in the book chooses to eat vegan with him for the duration of the book. My world, my rules.

Anything else you’d like to share?

I’m trying hard to popularize this quote that (I think) I came up with: “Animals make people better people.” I’d love for you all to use it.

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You know those moments when you suddenly realize something completely obvious? Well, that happened to me as I was preparing Bill’s interview. I realized he’s been vegan for over thirty years — longer than I’ve been alive! And he’s used those years of experience, as well as his past military service, to create Dead Meat, a novel set in a future America where humans have replaced animals on factory farms. The story follows a ragtag group of Human Liberation Front (HLF) activists as they seek to tear the system down — though not without shedding some blood in the process.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animal rights?

Sure! I went vegan as a punk rock teenager. I didn’t know other vegans at the time and fell into veganism because I thought it was a good way to get a rise out of my parents lol. As I started to process what it all meant, I realized that veganism was actually something that deeply resonated with me. Who could not get behind killing innocent creatures as a creed?! The problem was, veganism hadn’t caught on in a meaningful way yet in the early 90s, so I became something of a teenage outcast due to how I ate. I also had to pretty much go without eating good food until I learned how to cook, and that took years :)

Have you always wanted to be a writer?

Yes, ever since I was a kid. It just took learning my voice.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I think people are highly dependent on other people for how they think and look at the world. I also think the arts can change minds and contribute to people’s world view. In the 90s, bands like RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE influenced a whole generation to consider progressive politics, and tv shows with LGBTQ characters influenced society to change how we thought about gay marriage.

When did you realize you wanted to take your knowledge as a decades-long vegan and turn it into books?

I attended a vegan culinary program after the military with the intention of starting my own vegan restaurant. The timing wasn’t great since the economy was on the verge of a recession. I needed a new direction, and in 2010 I found it when I went to Haiti on a medical mission. I realized that helping people in healthcare was my calling, and soon after became an RN. It was still in the back of my mind that I had spent years studying vegan cooking and preparing to open a restaurant and I hadn’t done anything with it. One day I was inspired to package all of that knowledge in a book, a vegan book written with normal people in mind. That book ended up becoming VEGAN STRONG.

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Story Questions

After writing a nonfiction book and a picture book, why did you want to write a novel?

I’ve always wanted to write a novel, all that was missing was inspiration and the proper writing conditions. I was on a short book tour promoting VEGAN STRONG when the inspiration for DEAD MEAT hit me. While on a walk I worked out what would end up being the sequence where Johnny and the HLF rescue Johnny’s sister from the human dairy farm. I could see that scene clearly, I just didn’t know where the book would start and where it would end. I was pretty busy with other things, though, and the idea was just that ~ an idea. It stayed an idea until the pandemic. Writing DEAD MEAT was my way of dealing with the realities of life during that time. While I would never want to repeat the pandemic, being stressed, lonely and scared were the ideal conditions to write my novel.

One of the novel’s themes that resonated with me was that a violent system can corrupt even those of us with good intentions. As impassioned activists, it can be tempting to sink to our adversaries’ level, twisting facts or even inflicting violence to get our way. What can we do to stay true to our values and remain hopeful when it can be so much easier to fall prey to our basest instincts?

I’m a big picture guy. If I was convinced that breaking farm equipment or smashing meat restaurants was the path to a vegan world I’d be all about it. In my decades of being vegan, however, in practice that just makes the vegan movement less attractive to the masses, and in the end that’s how we save animals ~ by making our way of life more appealing to the masses, growing our numbers, and eventually ending government subsidies for animal agriculture.

This book is not for the faint of heart. The violence of the human agriculture industry is laid bare for the reader. Why was it important to the story that descriptions of such carnage not be avoided?

If anything, I think the violence pales in comparison to what humans are doing to animals on a daily basis lol but yeah it can be a lot for some people to handle. We are so deeply programmed to not consider animals lives that I would have to go hard to break through the propaganda to reach people.

How has your own military service influenced your writing, or your activism more broadly?

This book is a perfect example of two parts of my life — my dedication to animal rights and my military service — coming together. In everyday terms I relate to veterans and so-called normies in ways other activists probably don’t.

I’d like to believe that people would be more willing to eat plants or cultivated meat over human flesh, but I’m not 100% certain that’s true. Before our real-world timeline gets to the point when we have to make such a decision, what do you think are the most effective activism techniques for encouraging others to include all animals in their scope of moral consideration?

I don’t think the moral angle is going to work best for converting the masses. I think just eliminating the subsidies and letting the market work it out will bring people around to our agenda. For most people, the economic bottom line is far more important than other issues. To ignore that reality is to deny the truth.

President White’s aesthetic and oratory styles are reminiscent of another American president. In what ways was your 2050 version of the US inspired by the current political climate?

Completely. Weirdly I wrote the book BEFORE J6. I’m bummed that my book is more relevant NOW than when I wrote it. We weren’t supposed to embrace fascism, we weren’t supposed to roll back rights and have the military in the streets but here we are, totally fucked.

How can dystopian fiction highlight the injustices in modern society?

I think good fiction holds a mirror up to society and asks us to take a hard look.

You reference movies like The Wild Bunch throughout the novel. What pieces of fiction inspire your writing/activism?

Thank you for asking! I’m a BIG movie buff, and you can probably tell that some of the scenes and characters from the book were influenced by movies like THE THING, ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, BATTLE ROYALE and others. I also LOVE music, especially punk, metal , and hardcore, and wrote several of the scenes from the book as if they were music videos set to songs I liked at the time.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your work online?

I’m easily findable online via sgtvegan.com, sgt_vegan on IG or SGT VEGAN on FB and TikTok.

Any upcoming projects?

Yes! I’m working on a memoir about my time in Japan in the 90s. Super stoked, going to shop it around to publishers soon, keep your fingers crossed for me.

Anything else you’d like to share?

I know veganism has taken a few punches recently with the closure of restaurants and some brands not doing well, but keep in mind our way of life has only been RISING in popularity over the last couple of years. Hang in there, vegans!

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In my eternal quest to find new horror to consume, the cover of Chris Archeske’s anthology The Bad Things We Did immediately stuck out due to its ominous animal vibe. (My favorite kind of vibe.) I was even more excited to find an animal rights story tucked inside its pages. “Monstrous” tells the tale of Reed, a man who goes viral after a video of him rescuing a dog hits the internet. He builds up a brand for such daring feats, but when presented with an opportunity to be the hero after the cameras stop rolling, his true colors come out. It’s a spooky little story perfect for Halloween and animal lovers.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you became interested in creative writing?

My name is Chris Archeske, and I’ve been writing for as long as I can remember. I had a third grade teacher who taught me most of what I know about creative thinking. I recall the times she would read the class two separate and unrelated stories, then ask us “what if” questions like, “What if the characters from Book A met the characters from Book B? What if they switched houses for a week?” etc. It was fun to consider the possibilities, and I just never stopped thinking like that. I truly believe creative writing at its core is just asking questions and then answering them yourself.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

My mom was a licensed projectionist for a local theater, so I spent most of my childhood at the movies. I fell in love with film pretty instantaneously, and I knew I wanted to write a movie of my own one day. So I wrote pretty consistently throughout my childhood. It wasn’t until I had graduated high school that I really took writing seriously.

Editors are essential, but it’s always helpful to get a story as polished as possible before sending it to them. What are your best self-editing tips?

Editing is my weakness in the sense that I self-edit along the way, which slows down my actual process of writing. I think one of my greatest strengths is creating a story that flows and is well-paced, but that’s only achievable because I’m constantly re-reading and editing as I go. So that definitely cuts down on my daily word count. My best advice for self-editing? Text to speech. You’ll literally hear the mistakes as your story is being read to you.

One thing I love about horror is that no matter how disturbing or violent a story gets, there’s always an ending. It may be good or bad or ambiguous, but at least it ends at some point. In the real world, we never know when horrors will end, and it often seems like persecution, hatred, and violence have existed forever and will persist in perpetuity. What do you find most compelling about the horror genre?

I love that! And you’re right. The horror genre is like a roller coaster. It’s a safe way to experience something that should be dangerous. I love the way horror makes us view something differently, the way Jaws changed going to the beach, or Psycho changed taking a shower. In my own writing, I love taking something ordinary like that and finding a way to make it extraordinary. That’s why I loved writing “The Parachute” so much. We all played with one as kids. What if it was hiding something sinister?

In what ways can/does fiction shape the way people think about animals?

Fiction can impact our reaction and perception of animals in both good and bad ways. Bringing up Jaws again, author Peter Benchley often said he regretted writing the book as it exacerbated the general public’s fear of sharks and glorified false beliefs about them. On the flipside, I think fiction can shape our positive association with animals, too. Look at Charlotte’s Web by E.B. White. It’s hard not to be empathetic to spiders and pigs after reading a story like that.

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Story Questions

In the book’s afterward, you mention that “Monstrous” was inspired by seemingly ordinary actions staged and filmed to go viral on social media. (I’m not sure if you’re aware of it, but there are massive accounts on social media that stage “animal rescues” much like Reed’s.) Do you have any thoughts on the performative nature of activism (of any kind) on social media? Does the good outweigh the bad?

I don’t think “performative” activism is activism. If you’re doing something for likes and followers, or if you’re intentionally setting up a dangerous scenario that requires your help or intervention for a resolve, then you’re not being an activist. Life is cruel enough on its own without the push of our own agenda.

You also wrote that this story was inspired by “The Three Billy Goats Gruff.” How do you think the stories about animals we read as children influence our thoughts on animals as we age?

Going back to Charlotte’s Web, I still can’t separate real pigs from the Wilbur character from the story. I think if a story has any emotional pull involving an animal, good or bad, it’s tough to make the separation from that animal in real life.

I find it intriguing, and a bit perplexing, how many people refuse to read stories if there’s even a hint of animal cruelty. Why do people have such a visceral reaction to animal endangerment?

Animals don’t always get a choice, so I think it’s difficult for people to imagine something bad happening to a creature who was never given an option. So readers exercise their own power by choosing avoidance.

As soon as I saw the cover of The Bad Things We Did, I knew I had to read it. No matter the age range or genre, animals can be found on book covers everywhere. What do you think makes animals such compelling artistic subjects?

Thank you! My cover designer, Kristina Osborn, created that cover and knocked it out of the park. I think animals make compelling artistic subjects because, well, they’re timeless. Animals generally look the same across generations. People, however, not so much. People are always finding new ways to dress, accessorize, wear makeup, and style hair. It’s easy to identify the time period of a person riding a horse versus a horse by itself. With this in mind, I think the cover for The Bad Things We Did will be just as effective 50+ years from now.

Reed was surrounded by people during the animal rescues that made him famous, yet when he finally gets the chance to do it on his own, we see his true colors. Did Reed ever care about animals? Was his compassion corrupted by fame, or was it all an act from the beginning?

I think Reed cared about animals, and I’d like to think if fame hadn’t gotten to his head, he never would’ve considered putting an animal in harm’s way. I’ve heard crazy stories of addicts doing horrific things to get their next fix, and this was unfortunately Reed’s.

Regarding your story “The Candy Cane Man,” you wrote, “I’ve found that many writers—gay or otherwise—don’t explore the dark side of LGBTQ+ characters in fear of the reactions they’ll receive from readers (‘You’re portraying the community in a negative light! You’re canceled!’).” As someone involved in animal rights advocacy, I’ve seen this same kind of infighting over how we’re perceived by the public and what sort of activism approaches are the most effective. Why is it important to show the dark side—or, in some cases, the reality—of being a person in a historically marginalized or minority group?

That’s just it—the reality is that all people across all classes, groups, cultures, and backgrounds have a dark side, and we are equally capable of doing bad things, purposefully or not. Why should we pretend otherwise? I find that boring and, more importantly, unrealistic.

What do you hope readers will learn from Reed’s story?

I hope the takeaway is that sometimes what you think you want will cost you what you already have. And of course, be kind to animals. You never know if they’re friends with giant flesh-eating trolls.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

You can find me on Instagram and TikTok: @chrishasastory. And you can purchase my book here!

Any upcoming projects?

Currently working on multiple projects, but my next one’s a horror novella called Beau that I’m really excited about. The cover features a mannequin with a bloody hand. I’ll let your own mind think of the possibilities.

Anything else you’d like to share?

Thank you for taking the time to talk with me! This was fun!

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For those of us who grew up watching Disney Princess movies, fairies were cute, benevolent ladies with sparkly wings and magic wands. But the fae folk in Martin Treanor’s novel Curiosity and the Cat are of a much older, more traditional (and downright spooky) variety. They are agents of the natural world, and they do not take kindly to human interference in their land. Then along comes Curiosity, our eponymous little protagonist, who discovers that there are faeries living in her very garden…

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I’m originally from Ireland and now (having moved around quite a bit) live in Portugal with my wife, Lynsey, and an insanely adorable but overdramatic cat, Kitty. I became vegan thirteen years ago and, by then, had been writing for a couple of decades. It was through this transition, however, that I began to see how prevalent and gratuitous animal exploitation was embedded in the fiction we read, watch, and listen to.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming a writer. When did you decide to give it a shot?

Professionally I am an engineer (and have had a number of occupations over the years) but I always illustrated and painted which, in turn, was enhanced by my love of reading. When I moved to Denmark — perhaps because of the newness of the situation — one day, I just sat down at the PC and began a story. It felt like illustrating, but with a wider focus . . . and I was hooked.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

For my part, I would like to (and do) remove the seemingly normal ‘animals as meals’ aspects of fiction writing. Particularly within the fantasy genre, where it seems to be all but obligatory. And I find it just as easy to not include such things. As for the arts in general, if I can do so when writing, anyone can with any other medium. It’s not that hard. My hope is that I begin a new tradition of not mentioning the characters eating at all . . . or, if they have to for the narrative, giving them a non-animal alternative.

What does a typical day of writing look like for you?

First big statement: I am in no way a morning person. I get up around 9.30/10.00 and take a slow start into the day. I usually begin writing around 1pm, and continue until around 6/7pm-ish — I then do a bit on the way to bed, which is usually in the wee hours. Not the normal day, but it works for my weirdo mind.

As an American, I’m impressed that people in other countries follow our national politics. (I can barely keep up with it myself!) What inspired you to write the Trumplethinskin books? (Awesome title, btw.)

Actually, it was my publisher in early 2020 who sent an email saying, ‘The US election is coming up, you’re all writers, so write something.’

Because I follow US politics — as do many in Europe (because of The USA’s influence on global affairs) — I had enough knowledge of Trump’s history to put together a short (200 word) piece in the style of a children’s picture book. My publisher wrote back instantly, said, ‘Make this about a 1000 words. Do 3 books . . . oh, and you’re illustrating them too.’

Now, who could turn down an opportunity like that?

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Story Questions

This story is a dark fantasy, but I’d say it’s also at least partly eco-horror. When you began working on the novel, which came first: the theme or the plot?

With all of my books, it’s always the theme. Stephen King calls it the what-if? And, to Irish people like myself, the sídhe (faeries) have always been there. So, by extension, I think I always wanted to do a book about faeries at the bottom of the garden, only with an Irish/Celtic flair; where they are magical, but also scary, manipulative, not open to reasoning.

Another theme I enjoyed in the book is that magic can be found anywhere. Whether it’s in a secret toy shop or in our backyards, there are little worlds hidden all around us. But we rarely look. The narrator even says something to this effect: “I consider all the creatures of this good earth to be much more than their outward appearances. All too often, what the world sees becomes a means to pigeonhole a person or creature into some arbitrary identifiable but faceless subcategory.” How can looking deeper at animals, nature, and other humans help us reconnect with the magic of life?

Because that’s where it's at. It’s where we, and all things, are. We are products of and beholden to the natural world around us. The narrator, in this case, is just telling it like it is. As part of nature, we have an obligation to protect nature. As mentioned above, the world of the sídhe is a magical one but also a natural one. They are also easy to anger if the natural world is ignored or overexploited. There is a message there. To my mind, it would be good to heed it.

Late in the book, a faerie says, “Cats are precious. We like to think of them as our window to the world. Spies, if you like…familiars.” Why do you think we associate cats in particular with magic?

Show me a writer, and they’ll definitely share their home with a cat. Or want to. So, is it the cat or the writer who makes that decision? In my opinion, cats are the perfect beings: hearing, sight, agility, speed, the way they can manipulate their bodies, and do that alternating radar-dish thing they do with their ears. It’s as if they are not of this Earth. Supernatural entities? An alien species? They are definitely intriguing and, when they deign to grace you with their presence, a delight to have around. Exactly how they want it.

Faeries are having a moment right now. Why can’t readers get enough of faerie stories?

Coming from Ireland, and a country area at that, our whole folklore is steeped in stories of the sídhe. They are the underfolk. The tricksters. The entities who, if you annoy them or trespass in one of their spaces, will steal your children and make your life hell. And these types of stories are timeless and universal. Every culture has similar beings and tales. I think the recent interest in faeries is because the tale (and some might say the faeries themselves) never truly went away. In fiction, readers like stories that tap into the collective psyche, and archetype. Our job as writers is to give them that.

Did you create the book’s illustrations before you started writing, during the writing process, or after finishing the manuscript? In your opinion, what do images add to a story?

Actually, I did the illustrations afterwards, but had always intended to do a few to add a visual aspect to the story. The book was inspired, not only by the tales I grew up with, but by the storybooks I read as a child. And they always had a visual aspect. I thought it important to give the same to the reader . . . to hopefully evoke memories of childhood, where they too could see themselves at the bottom of the garden, unknowing of the watchful eyes of the faerie-folk.

If there’s some sort of gene that causes a person to like spooky stuff, then I must have it. In the community of Halloween, horror, and spooky lovers, animals that were once reviled — cats, bats, rats, toads, snakes, spiders — are now beloved. In what ways can fan culture benefit animals?

Ah, that’s it, though, isn’t it? All animals are what they are, it was only human misperceptions that made them spooky, creepy, and scary. What has happened now, however, by way of better understanding and/or because of our more caring nature coming to the fore, is that the once maligned creatures have become cool. And as fan-culture geeks — and vegans, no less — we can make them even cooler. I mean, who doesn't love a black cat or a chirpy little rat? We should always show the world how great they are.

The narrator finishes the tale by saying, “I heartily wish you only good fortune as you contemplate the myriad of living things that call this ball of rock, earth, and verdure home.” What do you hope readers will learn from Curiosity’s story?

In a nutshell, respect for nature and everything that lives. It’s what the faeries do. They are part of and custodians of nature — as are we. We should remember this. And do everything in our power to make the world a safe home for everything that lives in it. I like to think, in their own way, every character in the book learned this lesson. It’s why they endured so much. To learn. To be kinder. And to know of the consequences for thwarting nature.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

My books are available in all formats from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, GoogleBooks, and anywhere that sells books.

Quick links can be found via my Linktree.

My general website is: MartinTreanor.com

My Goodreads is: Martin Treanor | Goodreads

Instagram/Facebook/Threads: @martintreanorauthor

Bluesky: @martintreanor.bsky.social

Any upcoming projects?

I am currently working on two projects:

1. Running down the last edits on the first novel in an epic fantasy series (this is where I really want to address animal exploitation in fiction).

2. Starting the second draft of a story about a homeless woman caught up in the policy of a newly minted fascist government in Ireland.

I have no publisher for these, as yet, so will be embarking on the submission process again.

Anything else you’d like to share?

I’d like to share a quote from the late, great Benjamin Zephaniah:

‘Many of us live with companion animals such as dogs, cats, and rabbits. We share our homes with them, consider them members of the family and we grieve when they die. Yet we kill and eat other animals who, if you really think about it, are no different from the ones we love.’

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I’m delighted to introduce you to our first author from outside the vegan/animal rights bubble. Hazel Hitchins’ debut novel, Babs & Aggie: The Good, the Bad and the Vegan, came onto my radar by way of bookstagrammer @ameliaveganreader. A riotous contemporary fantasy, the story follows old friends (and amateur sleuths) Baba Yaga and Black Agnes as they seek to liberate their vegan friend from her abusive “vegan” partner. As you can imagine, I was desperate to pick Hazel’s mind, so let’s not dally any longer with this intro. Onward!

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you became interested in creative writing?

I’m a writer from the UK, best described as a “woman-of-a-certain-age”. I live in Wales with my normal family, my normal-ish cat and my entirely abnormal laundry pile.

Stories have been in my blood since birth. One of my earliest memories was of my mum tiptoeing along a specific route with me when putting me to bed, because in my imagination, we were navigating a field of sleeping wild horses.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

I first announced I wanted to be an author at the age of seven. Fourteen years later, I gained a degree in creative writing and then…nothing. I took an office job, met the boy, married the boy, got the mortgage, etc. I’m ashamed to say that it took the untimely passing of my mum a decade ago to remind me that we’re not promised tomorrow, and if I was ever going to write, NOW was the time.

As a freelance editor, what’s the piece of advice you most frequently give to authors?

I have two main pieces of advice, which are linked. Firstly, sit your backside in the chair and write. Until you get those words committed to the page, you’re not a writer; you’re a dreamer, which is fine up to a point, but dreams alone won’t see you complete your book.

Secondly, many writers stall because they’re striving for perfection. Perfection is a myth. Your work is never going to be universally adored. There will always be people who don’t like what you’ve written, and that’s fine. They’re entitled to their wrong opinion.

What makes a good editor/author relationship?

I’ve been on both sides of this, and I’d say communication is key. As an editor, you need to remember that the writer has put their heart and soul onto the page for you, and a certain degree of consideration for that should be engaged when giving feedback. That doesn’t mean sugar-coating anything; it just means discussing things sensitively and explaining the ‘why’ behind your feedback.

From the other side, I’ve received difficult feedback as an author. I find it’s best to keep in mind that your editor genuinely wants your work to be as polished as possible. Their feedback is not a personal attack on you. You may also feel some resistance to their suggestions, which is perfectly natural. Sit with them for a day or so and then look at them again. And remember, if you genuinely disagree with their choices, you can always say no.

In what ways can/does fiction shape the way people think about animals?

I think there’s a tendency for writers (myself included) to anthropomorphise animals, which can have the positive effect of promoting empathy for animals. The downside is that it can lead to a demand for certain pets from people with an unrealistic view of what owning a pet will entail. A classic example is that of the surge in demand for Dalmatians following the release of the Disney film, 101 Dalmatians, many of which were given up when the owners realised they couldn’t care for them.

On the flip side, writing about animals without this human lens can also have a detrimental effect. The hunting of sharks increased dramatically following the release of the film Jaws, due to the portrayal of the shark as a ravening monster.

Ultimately, I think, as with all our interactions with animals, we should be considerate of the impact we might have.

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Story Questions

Of all the mystical ladies in folklore, why were Baba Yaga and Black Agnes the right ones to star in this story?

I grew up reading fairy tales, and then British folklore, which then spread to European folklore and beyond. I remember reading the terrifying tales of ‘Black Annis/Agnes’ with her blue skin and iron claws, and Baba Yaga, with her sharp teeth and pointed fingers. Something didn’t sit well with me about these stories and it wasn’t until I read Terry Pratchett’s books (particularly, Wee Free Men) that I realised what it was. The thing all these ‘hags’ and ‘crones’ had in common was that they were old. Much as the shark in Jaws, they were portrayed as monsters, presumably because they weren’t cute and fluffy, and their outspoken attitudes represented a threat.

When I got the idea to write a story with witches in it, I knew I wanted to address that. I chose Aggie because she was the first folklore witch I remember reading about, and as, in Slavic folklore, Baba Yaga also embodies chaos and the unpredictable force of nature, I thought she would she would be the perfect foil for the Aggie I envisioned.

Despite dealing with a heavy subject matter, you manage to inject humor to keep the tone light and alleviate tension. What’s the secret to balancing comedy with drama?

That’s a tricky one, and I think you’re right to call it a balance, though I’m not sure it’s a secret. For me, it’s simply realising that life is going to send drama your way. It’s also going to send opportunities for laughter. The best we can do is hold on to those happy moments and use them to ride out the harder ones. That’s what I’ve tried to mimic by injecting humour. I explore this topic as a whole in more depth in the second Babs & Aggie (currently in progress).

I’m endlessly fascinated by the concept of familiars. Having read quite a bit about the persecution of “witches” throughout history, it seems that men in power have always been unsettled by women who love and respect animals. Why do you think women, magic, and animals have been so closely associated with one another across cultures and centuries?

Another fascinating question. I think magic, women and animals tap into a primal fear because they can’t be controlled. Witches' familiars tend to be depicted as traditionally ‘unbiddable’ creatures — cats, goats, birds etc. When you team that with the role of the ‘handywoman’, effectively the midwife who would help at the edges of life, namely birth and death, and would develop an impressive catalogue of herblore to help at these times, then you’ve certainly got the appearance of magic. And for a particular type of person, that can feel threatening. Historically, this has led to women having limitations placed upon them (such as requiring them to apply to the bishop for a license to practise midwifery) or being persecuted (witch trials, need I say more). One might argue that the limitations and persecutions continue in various forms today.

Babs says at one point, “House is my heartbeat, my darling one, who provides me with home and warmth and care. This is the way with familiars and if we lose them, we lose part of our selves.” This relationship between magical folk and animals (even sentient part-animals like House) mirrors our real-world relationship with companion animals. Sometimes I take the time to just gaze at my dog, and I can’t help but marvel at how incredible — some may even say magical — the animal kingdom is, that us two wildly different species can cohabitate together and form deep bonds. Were the familiars in this story at all inspired by your own experiences with animal companions?

I think so. I have always had animals in my life — various dogs, cats, and even an unexpected horde of hamsters. They provided comfort and companionship in my formative years (with the exception of the hamsters, who mostly provided chaos). I’m now the willing servant of a diva of a cat who has wrapped the entire household around her toe-beans. Despite her prima donna attitude, she instinctively knows when one of us is upset or sick, and she seeks us out to make us feel better — in the case of my youngest son, this involved sitting on him so he’d keep still for long enough to recover. Likewise, I love that she trusts me to make her better when she’s unwell. I think that once you’ve experienced that connection, it is going to affect you. And Aggie’s despair at the loss of her cat is something many of us can relate to.

It’s incredibly rare to see vegans represented in fiction. And when they do appear, it’s nearly always to be the butt of the joke or to be “corrupted,” as I call it, by eating or killing animals at some point in the story. First of all, I wanted to thank you for creating Sophie, a vegan character who’s actually believable! The community of bookish vegans is small (but growing!), so you have no idea how much we appreciate seeing vegans represented on the page as normal people. Not being vegan yourself, how did you approach the research process to create such a realistic vegan character?

There’s a famous proverb about a jar of spiders. They all scuttled around the bottom of the jar, bumping into each other, accepting the fact that this was their life, until one spider managed to scale the glass. Just as the spider reached the rim of the jar, the other spiders saw its success and worked together to climb up the side and pull the spider back down. They then pulled off its legs so it would never try to leave again.

You may wonder what this has to do with your question, but it summarises the mindset I try and adopt with everything. There are too many spiders ready to pull others down for doing something different to them. They feel it reflects badly on them for not doing the same, but ultimately, it is simply a reflection of what matters to the person scaling the jar. People choose veganism because it matters to them, not because they think they are better than the other ‘spiders’, and that’s what I wanted to get across with Sophie. She is just a normal person who has made some poor relationship choices. Her veganism, however, is something she feels at her core — she doesn’t push it on to anybody else, but just quietly lives her life, sticking to her beliefs.

Given what I said in the last question, you may think I’d have a gripe with the Vegan as a character, but I don’t. I think it’s important to show that vegans — or “vegans” in this case — can also be flawed people (aka normal…okay, well, maybe he’s not the best example of normal). Anyhow, speaking of the Vegan, why’d you decide not to name him?

I’m so glad you picked up on the fact that I didn’t name him. It was an active decision not to do so, partly because there’s something visceral sounding about the word ‘vegan’ which belies its actual meaning. It can be spat out in anger in a similar way to the words villain and evil, which is why I felt it suited him. Mostly, though, he didn’t get a name because he doesn’t deserve one. My way of thinking is that my characters have to earn their names by showing the ability to change and improve (which is why Little Miss Magick ultimately gets a grudging name).

Almost every vegan has learned that the word “vegan” is a good way to send people running. Some of us therefore choose to eschew the word by calling ourselves plant-based or avoiding labels altogether. Did you have any concerns about including “vegan” in the book’s title, especially considering this is your debut novel?

I did worry about this, which is why I made it clear on the back and from the very first mention of him that he was a fraud and simply using the label of vegan as a method of control. It’s why I also wanted Sophie to be a realistic depiction of a real vegan, so that it was clear this book wasn’t an attack on veganism.

I also checked with several vegan friends about whether they would find the use of the term vegan in this way offensive. Their view was that it wasn’t in any way offensive. In their words “Vegans can be nasty, too,” (even though the Vegan isn’t actually vegan).

Ultimately, to paraphrase Babs and Aggie when they were asked if they hate vegans:

“Do we hate vegans, Agnes?”

“Vegans? No. It’s a***holes we can’t stand.”

And I think this comes across in the book.

Have your opinions on veganism changed through the process of writing the book?

In some ways, yes. I’ve realised that creating vegan dishes isn’t as difficult as many people assume it is. It has increased my curiosity about food in general. I’ve always enjoyed cooking, but writing the book has encouraged me to look at my lifestyle. I’m now looking at ways to remove ultra-processed foods from my diet, which has involved including more plant-based meals into my repertoire.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

You can find me online on my website.

On Instagram, Facebook and Threads under the handle of @hazelhitchinsauthor and on Bluesky at @hazelhitchins.bsky.social.

Babs & Aggie — the Good, the Bad & the Vegan is available from:

• Amazon

• Barnes & Noble

• Kobo

And in the UK, it’s even available to order from your favourite indy book store.

Any upcoming projects?

A second Babs & Aggie novel is in the works, and I’m also working on a Babs & Aggie novella, which I’m hoping to release for Christmas. Alongside this, I have several ideas for YA novels, though I suspect I would release these under the name of Siwan Freeman (under which I previously released a collection of short stories), simply because they’ll have a different feel to them.

Anything else you’d like to share?

You can keep up to date with all my writing news and get monthly, humorous, (semi) fictional stories about my life with my cat, by signing up to my newsletter. The link is on my website.

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Roxi the Rescue Dog has been on my radar for a few years now, so I’m absolutely thrilled to finally get the chance to interview the one and only Carolyn Drew! Inspired by her own dog and her experiences at animal sanctuaries, Carolyn’s picture book series follows the titular superdog as she flies across the world saving animals in need. The series’ most recent addition, Roxi the Rescue Dog Helps the Horses, was just released in August and absolutely needs to be on your radar if you have any animal-loving kids in your life!

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I grew up loving animals, sharing our home with dogs, cats, and rabbits, and working and volunteering in various animal related capacities. I was so sad one year after a personal experience with a puppy mill dog that I developed a deep desire to help stop animal suffering around the world. I just didn’t know how to go about it. Later in life, while raising children, writing humane education stories came up as one of my ideas. Activism through humane education.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming a writer. When did you decide to give it a shot?

I enjoyed creative writing as a child and dabbled in travel writing as a young adult, but I was well into adulthood before I decided to purposefully give writing a shot. When my children were young, I’d make up bedtime stories featuring our pets that had humor and a life lesson woven into them. I thought about putting those stories into writing for a long time. The years went by, the kids grew up, the pets passed on, but I finally published my first book in 2019! It was the start of the Roxi Books humane education series. I’ve added to the series with a story each year since, and plan to continue as long as I am able.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

The arts are a powerful way to raise awareness and connect with people emotionally by portraying the experience, feelings and suffering of animals. Whether through literature, film, visual arts, or theatre, the arts allow us to educate by presenting animal advocacy information in unique and creative ways, hopefully catching people who would not normally be open to receiving such information. Since the arts can be direct or passive, we can reach more people – some of whom will reflect on the issues presented and adjust their lifestyle choices.

Sometimes the hardest part of writing a book is just getting started. What sort of advice do you have for writers looking to get published?

I think that’s the answer right there. Just start. Easy to say, I know. But today there are many online courses (free and paid), lots of resources, forums and people who genuinely want to help emerging authors. Purposefully set aside time (each day, week, or month) for your project. Do a mock-up or draft of your ideas. Join a weekly Facebook group or webinar where you’ll get ideas and encouragement. With self-publishing also being a viable option, that may help ease the nerves of people worried about pitching to a traditional agent.

Many vegans and activists are familiar with the plethora of nonfiction books and documentaries related to veganism, but pro-animal fiction is far rarer. What can animal advocates learn from fiction, or storytelling more broadly?

While advocacy often focuses on impersonal facts and statistics, fiction and storytelling tap into a different part of our brain (empathy) and can make readers feel for animals as individuals, not just as a species or cause. Readers can appreciate the animal’s point of view, and hopefully, realize that we can make things better for them in our future.

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Story Questions

Roxi’s not only a fictional dog but a real-life one, too. Could you share her story with us?

Roxi became part of our family in 2012 when she was rescued from a kill shelter as an 8-month-old puppy. She was shy, scared, and anxious, but we adorned her with patience and love. She has grown up with our family including her canine sister (Buffy) and two feline siblings (Nabby & Licorice). Currently at 13 years old, she still gets into mischief (she loves shoes!) which is some of the inspiration for her mischief in the stories. She loves food and walks, but an all-time favourite activity is lounging in a warm sunbeam!

When you got the idea to write your own children’s books, why did you want Roxi to be the one rescuing her fellow nonhuman friends (as opposed to, say, a human hero)?

Since my original bedtime stories to my children had featured our family dog, I continued this tradition, starring Roxi, when I finally decided to write. She’s a rescue dog with a nice life and she wants all the animals in the world to have a nice life too, so she uses her superhero powers to save them.

There are so many animals abused in so many ways. How do you decide which species Roxi will rescue next?

Great question! This is one of my hardest decisions. Sadly, almost every animal you can think of has a welfare issue I could write about. When I started my first book, I was in the grocery store with my daughter buying eggs. There were so many labels: free range, free run, cage free, etc. I started reading the descriptions inside the egg cartons. It was definitely overwhelming. I chose a carton and said, “Well, I sure hope these were from happy chickens!” That kick-started my research into ‘which animals are the most abused in the world’ and I continued from there. The information I discovered was absolutely horrifying! I transitioned to vegan and never bought any more eggs.

As disturbed as I am with the overwhelming amount of animal cruelty in many industries, I carefully research which issue and how I will portray it in my next story. I try to choose one of the most abused animals, based on statistics, but also one that will work with a children’s story. Animal cruelty falls into many categories, including: animals used for food, animals used for entertainment, animals used for fashion, animals used for research experiments and product testing like cosmetics and medicine. I hope to continue to produce stories that represent all sectors.

The end of each book contains facts about the animals Roxi rescued in the preceding story. Why is it important that you share that information with readers?

Since the stories are read to children, I focus on “happy” and “sad” animals (opposed to abused and tortured animals), but the adults will definitely understand the underlying ethical message. It’s important to back up the story with information and facts on the specific animal welfare issue the story is about because even though the stories are fictional, this background information validates the storyline. Hopefully these facts will encourage family discussions and empathy about how we treat animals and the choices we make.

What’s the key to a successful author-illustrator collaboration?

I would say friendly, respectful, clear, and concise communication (in writing) that outlines all expectations ahead of time (number of images, edits, timeline, fees, deposits). For me personally, I already have an idea of each specific image and style I’d like in the story. I communicate that to my illustrator and give her creative license from there. For my sad (animal cruelty) images, I include real images from the internet, so she has some background information on the specific animal welfare issue I’m wanting to convey.

Animals frequently take starring roles in children’s books, but they often serve only as anthropomorphic stand-ins for humans. And rarely do they contain any sort of positive message about treating animals with compassion. In what ways would you like to see other kidlit authors better represent animals in their stories?

I feel the best way is to give the animals agency (a voice) by writing from their perspective. How are they feeling about how they are treated? How are they feeling in their relationships? What are they thinking? What are their needs? What do they dream about? Writing them as unique individuals with their own quirky personality helps readers connect emotionally to them. We can also help prevent speciesism by showing inter-species friendships and relationships.

Sanctuaries are an important part of your work as a humane educator, but, much like the arts, they’re not typically considered essential sources of advocacy. What are some of the potential benefits of a robust farmed animal sanctuary network, and how would you like to see the broader animal rights movement improve its relationship with sanctuaries?

Sanctuaries are amazing educators! By offering sanctuary visits, workshops, and educational programs, people not only learn about sentient beings, but can develop emotional relationships and compassion with the animals they encounter. Compassion for one animal transfers to compassion for other animals and even to people and the world. Sanctuaries give faces, names, and personal stories to the very animals we advocate for. They are the living showcase of what the movement is fighting for.

Pro-animal kidlit is empowering for children but also for the adults who read the books to them. If nothing else, they give us hope that the future for animals will be better than the present. What fuels you to keep writing despite the overwhelming adversity our movement faces?

I believe every little bit helps and every choice matters. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing! If even one person makes a compassionate choice because they’ve read one of my stories, that’s success for me. Often stories we hear in childhood shape how we see our world in the future. I hope my stories plant seeds of curiosity and empathy, and that kids ask questions to the adults that spark conversations about how we treat animals. Maybe they decide not to ride an elephant, maybe they decide not to drink milk, maybe they decide to buy cruelty-free products. Baby steps. One change at a time. And things are changing. Statistics show a significant increase in consumer demand for cruelty-free products, and vegan and vegetarianism are on the rise. That keeps me going!

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and your stories online?

Facebook: Roxi The Rescue Dog Books

Instagram: @roxi.the.rescue.dog.books

Website: RoxiTheRescueDog.com

Amazon: Author Carolyn Drew Roxi Books

YouTube: @RoxiBooks

Any upcoming projects?

I’m excited to announce the launch of my 6^th ROXI BOOK right now! Roxi the Rescue Dog Helps the Horses is a story that raises awareness of horses used for entertainment. Specifically, horses used for carriage rides, horse racing, and rodeos. I’ll be having events and giveaways throughout the month.

Anything else you’d like to share?

Roxi Books humane education series synopsis: each story features a different animal and corresponding animal welfare issue. In each story, Roxi finds happy animals and sad animals. Luckily, through her messages of kindness and compassion, Roxi saves the sad animals, and they get to move in with the happy animals. The stories are cute and whimsical with an underlying animal rights message to encourage conversations about how we treat sentient beings.

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Today we’ll be traveling to Aralland, a hidden realm draped atop our own. There, ghosts and vampires and other supernatural creatures roam, us mortal souls none the wiser. Our guide into this land is Skeleton Ink, who’s compiled a collection of journal entries by a recently deceased woman called Holly, giving us a peek into this mysterious land of the non-living.

All chapters in the ongoing series can be read for free here.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

I was brought up by parents who taught me the importance of respecting living entities which were ‘other’ than human. We had animals in our house as I grew up, was taught about animal rights, wore t-shirts with slogans and illustrations my own mum had worn on marches and demonstrations and as a vegetarian was taught about why my eating habits differed from friends’ and classmates’ and the realities of slaughterhouses and farming animals for food. I wasn’t the most sociable person growing up and I would lose myself in books, reading at least two at once — but never getting the stories mixed up. This combined with my love of the outdoors and nature meant that the two were top hobbies of mine — rambling and cosying up with a good book.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming writers. When did you decide to give it a shot?

When I was younger, I would always answer that I wanted to be an author when I grew up, but my creative writing stalled a bit as a teenager, I think partly because of the prescriptive way it was taught in school (my school anyway). However, it started up again as I wrote bits of poetry and used words as an art form during my studies in textile and experience design at university. When I had a spine injury in 2024, I was very restricted as to what I could do, and my usual routine went out the window completely. So, I started to piece together snippets, conversations, notes and doodles I had made in the past and realised I could bring them together and start writing again.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I think the arts — be that visual arts, mixed media, creative writing — are a key part of engaging people with any theme or issue. Done in a creative way, campaigns or messages can reach people on a more emotional level than ‘just’ using facts and figures. Imagery and writing can evoke emotion and memories which catch people in their hearts and minds. So many people have a connection with a particular animal or species because of a childhood experience or reading a story which revolved around a particular animal character — so creating artistic ways to reach people throughout their life and keep them caring is a key part of change. I always say that knowledge, experience and understanding are the foundations of change.

How do veganism, animals, and/or the natural world inspire your writing and art?

I walk outdoors every day when I can — whether it is raining or windy or sunny, it just helps my ideas flow better somehow. The shapes, forms and textures around me inspire the ones I use in my art practice (Natural Curiosity Studio, where you can find my real world/non-writing name is Daisy) and the sensory qualities seem to wake my brain up so that it can generate words and ideas that are more complex and captivating than if I just tried to find them sitting at a desk. All of these things drive me — I find my purpose is to use my creative skills to connect people to the things I care about most — namely the natural world and non-human entities, providing them with a creative way of experiencing my interpretation of the world around me.

What do you love most about the fantasy genre?

I think the fact that you can use common everyday bases and build up to a fantastical creation. It is really thrilling to realise that you can allow your imagination to be free and generate something that you haven’t seen or read before. However, I love how there is so much fantasy out there already. Playing with familiar concepts can be a fun way to draw people into the world you are creating.

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Story Questions

How did you come up with the idea for Aralland, and how has Welsh folklore influenced the story?

Aralland actually started as a few separate ideas and concepts. It wasn’t until I was walking one day and suddenly thought ‘hang on, all of these ideas could be a part of the same world’ that the penny dropped and I created the world of Aralland. I am based in Wales and there are lots of folktales and lore which connect people across the country. These tales are often intricately linked to the natural world and creatures or beings which are not human. For Aralland, I have taken ideas of my own and combined them with concepts from Welsh folklore to create a new realm. I did a lot of research into entities across Wales and which ones were more famous than others, which were darker or had roots in other countries as well. I felt it was more respectful to use these as influences and not just try to rewrite the stories that have been a part of communities for generations. Every name I have used is deliberate, has a particular meaning or concept in Welsh, and every location is a combination of reality and my own fictional creations. A real hybrid realm. It was really interesting and I have only scratched the surface!

How much of Holly’s story do you already know, and how much is just part of the discovery process as you write?

Holly’s story — up to a particular point — is complete in my head. I know who she is and where she is heading. However, this wasn’t the case when I started. I actually wrote a couple of chapters and then found myself questioning my own characters and their motivations and realised that the character could be confused, but I couldn’t. So once again, walking and being outside provided me with answers and I re-edited and slotted in bits and pieces to make the story work. I wrote out brief outlines for 40 chapters, but then have fleshed them out and worked out the intricacies and details as I have gone along, ensuring to weave particular threads throughout so that the story, other characters’ stories and Holly’s, makes sense and is heading to the points I want them to.

Why did you want to release each chapter individually rather than collecting them into a novel or submitting them to a literary publication? Any advice for other writers looking to do the same?

I decided that I wanted to write the pieces down and record them. I realised that I prefer the written versions over the sound/audio versions I recorded. I listened to a wonderful podcast fantasy story called The Antique Shop, which released a new episode every week or two. I liked this element of building a community which could speculate on what was going to happen and where each character was heading. Holly is the narrator of these chapters and so they’re reflective of her records of events as they unfold, so doing it in this way felt practical. I do have hopes and some sketches/plans to have them all collated and published as a book and maybe (dream goals) graphic novel because I think it would work really well like this. Plus, I am trained in art and design so often think in visual design as well.

I think if you have ideas, put them out there. It is quite scary to do but actually can help boost confidence if you can think ‘yes, I am a writer.’ And here is my proof. So anyone who wants to get involved in any physical copy or drawings, let me know!

Dying scares me, so of course I think about it a lot. I especially think about all the animals killed by human hands every day. I wonder about what happens to them, if there’s any peace for them after their hearts stop beating. From the way you wrote about Holly’s first moments after becoming an Ysbrid, I have a feeling you’ve thought a lot about death, too. Can you share a bit about that?

I know that to some people I can seem very odd because in conversations, I have discussed how death itself is natural and found I do not find death as scary as others. However, suffering is not natural, and suffering does scare me. I do think about death and, like you, do often think about suffering and pain caused to animals at the hands of humans. I get so upset or frustrated at the injustice and those who say “it’s just an animal” or “it’s not human.” But I think that this can easily send one into a spiral of upset and pain of your own. So, I think I have ended up using it as inspiration. How can I reach people in a way which encourages them to care in the way I do — or connect them to something that they may not otherwise have thought of?

Holly is a character who has suffered in life, particularly towards the end where she expected her death and knew she was dying, and so death itself is a comfort in a way and something she accepted before it actually happened. This other realm that she has entered into is a place where she can be and not fear death in the way that she did in life.

I adore Jenny Jinya’s ‘Loving Reaper’ series. She has a grim reaper who helps end the suffering of animals at the hands of cruelty but who also enables animals who were cared for to look over their loved ones and say goodbye. I think this reversal of the role of the reaper — the presentation of him as only doing his job but doing it with quiet and calm and providing dignity is so beautiful. I highly recommend it. Particularly for those who fear death.

Many modern ghost stories exclusively feature human spirits, as if the afterlife exists for humans alone. As such, I appreciated that the first Ysbrid Holly meets is a dog. How would you like to see other writers better utilize animals in their work?

I think focusing only on humans is mad really, because everywhere in the world are entities other than human. So as in life, why not in death? If you look at many stories based in the living realm, animals are companions and sidekicks for humans, but I felt it important to include them in a non-living realm too. There are many people who feel more closely connected to animals than with other humans and so I wanted to share this connection in written form in Aralland. It would be great to see other writers using animals as main characters or hybrid characters — maybe half-human, half-animals — just to open up more conversations around animal and human connection. Characters in stories are one way to reach out to people and teach them the importance or plight of a species.

Holly learns that most children can see Ysbridion until about two years of age. This struck me as similar to how children often don’t want to eat animals until they get to an age when such inclinations are considered immature, unrealistic, or unhealthy. What can adults learn from children’s innate compassion?

Children are naturally curious. They explore the world openly, with tactility and often with compassion. No child is born with hate in their heart or the belief that they are superior — these are things they learn from observing the world around them and listening to values and hate incited by others. Adults can learn from curiosity. If more adults kept an open mind and were curious — respectfully curious — then they could learn an awful lot. There would be less aggression and more meaningful and respectful dialogue, not just separate shouting monologues into an abyss of fear and resentment.

After Holly dies, she realizes how distracted we all are, missing the “glances and murmurs of nature and other beings.” In your own life, what do you do to stay present and enjoy the small things?

I can easily get worried about the small things and sweat the little stuff. I think when you care about the environment, when you care about animals, life can be painful and full of sadness. But likewise, I also notice small things to celebrate. I like to do the ‘5, 4, 3, 2, 1 method’. Go outside and using your senses notice 5 things you can see, 4 you can smell, 3 you can hear, 2 you can touch, 1 you can taste. Or 1 you can touch, etc — mix it up. That way I end up looking at detail around me and really take in what’s there, not just viewing it through a screen or through 1 or 2 senses but all of them.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you and Aralland online?

• My website has the chapters and ‘behind the scene’ content

• Instagram @skeletoninkwrites

• Ko-fi

• YouTube

So far the first 5 chapters are in audio form on Spotify, found by searching for Aralland or Skeleton Ink Writes.

Any upcoming projects?

For my YouTube channel, I have plans to have videos of me making pieces featured in Aralland chapters using my craft practice and talking about Aralland — connecting the dots between folklore in the story and in Welsh history. As I said, having Aralland in a physical form and with images to accompany it other than the photographs I have created is tumbling around in my brain right now!

For my own Natural Curiosity practice, I am looking at expanding my ecology range — talking more about ecology and habitat creation/importance and the connection between that and my craft as a weaver.

Anything else you’d like to share?

I have a business ‘Natural Curiosity’ where I make pieces from natural materials or sustainably resourced materials, e.g., yarn or fabric that was destined for landfill repurposed by me, and I run workshops on making art with nature in mind. You can find that all here:

• Instagram @naturalcuriositystudio

• Website

I am also writing my first book which explores human experience, loneliness and the natural world and is very different from Aralland in many ways but actually has some threads which connect the two. For that I hope to publish in book form.

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In addition to Ashland Creek Press’s marvelous essay collection Writing for Animals, Midge and John have just released Animal Writes, a book chock-full of essential advice for any author who wants to make the world a better place for animals.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourselves, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

We are both writers and co-founders of a boutique publisher, Ashland Creek Press, devoted to environmental and animal literature. We are passionate about animal rights and consider ourselves “literary activists.” We believe there’s tremendous opportunity to open hearts and minds about animal issues through literature.

Many of us have childhood dreams of becoming a writer. When did you decide to give it a shot?

Midge: I did have that childhood dream, and ended up working in journalism and in publishing before writing and publishing short stories and eventually novels. And now everything I write has an animal angle in it.

John: I’ve always written but didn’t really consider myself a creative writer until I published the short story “The Tourist Trail,” which was inspired by our work with Magellanic penguins many years ago.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

Art can reflect our society and call out how to make it better. Best of all, art and especially literature can imagine a better future for animals. Art can imagine new traditions—vegan Thanksgiving meals, for example—and by imagining these futures and alternative realties, art normalizes a better world in our minds, which lays for the foundation for taking action.

What is a boutique publisher, and what are the benefits of choosing one like Ashland Creek Press over a larger press?

We are a small press with a focus on environmental and animal literature. While larger publishers have considerably more resources, such as wide distribution and publicity staff, we offer everything a traditional publisher does, plus more personal attention and a longer-term commitment to our books. We still advocate for the books we published a decade earlier, whereas bigger publishers usually move on to the next season’s books within a few months. And we don’t have the high turnover of bigger publishers, in which many authors end up losing their editors even before their book is published.

We live in an era when anybody can, and many people do, write and publish novels entirely on their own. What can authors do to make their work stand out amongst the fray?

First and foremost, tell a story people can’t wait to read! Be original, and be passionate about your work, both on and off the page. Also, if you’re going to go your own way, be sure you invest in professional editing and production. You want your book to look and feel as professional as it can be. Most of all, you have to be stubborn and invested in the long haul. Self-publishing can be daunting, and sometimes depressing, but there are many success stories from authors who jump-started their careers through self-publishing. And finally, no matter how you publish, promoting your work and getting it in front of readers is paramount.

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Book Questions

Animal Writes was born from your Writing for Animals book/class. Looking back, why did you think that teaching authors how to write about animals was important, and how has your thinking on the topic evolved as you developed the Writing for Animals class, hosted workshops, and wrote Animal Writes?

Words have power, and writers bear a responsibility to use words in ways that help, rather than harm, animals and all living creatures. We began the book and class in an effort to raise awareness to the ways that writers often objectify or villainize animals without awareness. Also, as readers ourselves, we want to see more books in the world that open eyes and hearts to the many animal species we share this planet with. In the Writing for Animals program, we were inspired by how many writers want to advocate for animals, and we continue to meet writers at various stages of their journey. Animal Writes offers a way to help them continue that journey.

In both Writing for Animals and Animal Writes, you emphasize the difference between writing for animals and writing about animals. Can you expound on that here?

When you write for animals, you’re thinking of how you can help animals rather than how they can help you. Too many books about animals tend to focus on how they help humans—or animals are featured merely as props rather than as characters in their own right. Writing for animals is not about how we use animals, but it’s about recognizing them as individuals, as sentient beings, and it’s about honoring them for who they are.

In your professional experience as both writers and publishers, how have attitudes toward animals and animal advocacy changed over the years?

The world is clearly awakening to animals like never before, though, sadly, the world still wears collective blinders regarding the animals we eat and abuse. So it’s uneven evolution, in which some animals receive greater consideration and protections—like the animals we share our homes with—while other animals remain overlooked, like chickens and cows. But this is why we exist—to raise awareness and compassion for all animal species through our books and through our Writing for Animals program.

I’m guessing you, me, and the people reading this interview are some of the very few who think about animals on a regular (or constant) basis. Even so, at least half the books I read have nothing to do with animals. How can authors be inclusive of animals and address animal rights issues without writing an “animal book”?

Unless you’re writing a book set on the moon, you’re probably setting the book in some place where animals are a constant presence. Now, we wouldn’t recommend adding animals just for the sake of doing so. But subtlety goes a long way, and we encourage writers to be aware of animals in their work and any impacts the human animals may have on them, intentionally or unintentionally. Calling these out or simply avoiding the normalizing of animal abuse—such as eating meat, wearing animals, and so on—can have a huge impact on readers. Writing for animals also means considering your human characters—if one happens to be vegan, for example, providing their perspective, even in small doses, can enlighten readers. And it also presents opportunities for conflict with other humans, which can move a story forward and keep readers highly engaged. Above all, we don’t want our work to be preachy; any animal advocacy on the page needs to be done seamlessly within the context of the story for it to be successful.

Research is an essential component of an animal author’s writing process. But what about other writers? If, say, a vegan author were writing a book unrelated to animal rights but still wanted to incorporate subtle pieces of pro-animal messaging in their work, how should they approach the research process?

The good news is that the internet can help you research any species or place on this planet—and help you discover experts you can interview, such as researchers or other writers. There is a misconception that you have to travel to every place you plan to write about. While doing so certainly helps, it by no means is required to write a believable novel or short story. Nonfiction, of course, will require a great deal more authenticity. But if you’re short on funds or time and want to advocate for an animal species, step outside your front door, and you’ll bump into numerous species who could use a little advocacy, like squirrels, birds, and deer.

In my mind, environmentalism is included under the animal rights umbrella because the environment is only as important as the beings who depend on it. In what ways would you like to see environmental literature embrace animal rights, and vice versa?

We founded EcoLit Books to connect animal rights and environmentalism. We believe we’re seeing a “new environmentalism” emerge that very much makes this connection, and that views hunting and fishing and other extractive practices as counter to true environmentalism. But it’s an uphill battle to be sure. Too many people view environmentalism as an electric car and passive home building, which is part of it. But they conveniently overlook eating animals, which is far more destructive to our planet, not to mention devastating to billions of innocent animals.

Like any form of activism, vegan writers can put pressure on their stories to be the one thing that turns someone vegan, but that can lead to finger-wagging prose if we’re not careful. What’s the best way to include pro-animal themes without coming off as “preachy”?

At some point during the writing process, we all have to consider our audience. If you’re writing for mainstream readers and hope to open their eyes to animal issues, you have to go about it carefully. As with any story, you don’t want to lead with the message but weave your themes through the work via a specific character or plotline. And as a vegan writer, you might also create characters who are the opposite; doing so is sure to create conflict, which is critical to any story—and seeing both views in a story is important and offers all readers characters that will resonate with them. But, in the end, you have to write what you want to write and listen to your gut. A lot of agents and editors may be uncomfortable with animal rights themes, due to their own use of animals, but you have the right as an author to put your own truth on the page.

What sort of advice would you give to novice writers, people just starting their writing journey, who want to use their words to make a difference for animals?

Start with short stories and essays. These can be less intimidating for new writers and will also give you an opportunity to have something to send out for publication more quickly and to get a feel for the publishing landscape. (Our EcoLit Books website offers writing opportunities for environmental and animal writers, from journals to publishers.) You can explore characters and issues through a short story that you later turn into a novel, something we’ve both done. Also, read as widely as you can—not only books by vegan authors but also those by non-vegan authors, noting what can be done more effectively for animals. And keep in mind the myriad genres at our disposal—letters to the editor can be a wonderful form of advocacy. As another example, we wrote a mystery novel, Devils Island, with the goal of telling a suspenseful story while also raising awareness of the plight of Tasmanian devils. Writers can use thrillers, romance, science fiction, and so on to make a difference for animals by drawing in all types of readers.

In my opinion, an engaging setting can make up for dull characters or contrived plotlines. Your novels include rich descriptions of settings, making the land feel like a living, breathing thing rather than stationary scenery, while also treating the animals who live there as characters leading their own stories off the page. What can other writers do to bring their settings to life?

Focus on all of the senses of a place—sound, smell, feel—and not just what it looks like. Like researching animals, researching place is equally important, and if you can’t get to a place, read about it and also watch videos, documentaries, films—anything that can give you more of the sounds and sights of the place. And of course, how the human and nonhuman animals live within a place will help the landscape come alive as well.

During your Animal Writes book launch, John said that genres are underutilized by animal advocates. (As someone who predominantly reads genre fiction, I strongly agree!) How can the conventions of genre fiction offer authors unique ways of addressing animal rights issues in their work?

If your goal is to reach readers, go to where most readers are—which is within genres such romance, mystery, thrillers, and sci-fi. A genre presents an amazing opportunity to wrap an animal theme within a larger story, such as a murder mystery or romance. For example, we published a romantic comedy by a French author called The Green and the Red, about a vegetarian restaurant owner who falls in love with a pork executive. We’ve also published a YA trilogy of paranormal books about a “vegan vampire”—a fun, animal-friendly take on the Twilight series.

In my experience, animal advocacy through fiction isn’t taken as serious or necessary activism in the broader animal rights movement. How can we, as literary activists, show fellow animal advocates that this kind of work is important?

Activism takes many forms, from protests to rescue to literary activism. Unfortunately, literary activism doesn’t get the attention it deserves. There are plenty of documentaries, for example, on the horrors of animal industries—but where are the dramas? We’re getting there, but stories—whether novels or films—need to be tactfully written so as to not feel “preachy,” as you noted. And, most of all, they need to be palatable to mainstream readers. Those who won’t watch a documentary on slaughterhouses aren’t likely to read nonfiction about factory farming—but if these issues were woven artfully and thoughtfully and seamlessly into a novel, whether a mystery, thriller, or literary drama, readers would enjoy the story and inadvertently learn about the issues, which could be a spark for change.

You told Animal Writes readers, “Think about the types of literature, art, and film that inspire you to create.” So, what inspires you?

We’re inspired by all genres of writing and art that elevate animals as characters. We’re inspired by writers who embrace their activism by using their talents to make the world a better place for animals. And most of all we’re inspired by compassion and those who extend their own to all beings.

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Final Questions

How can readers find you online?

Ashland Creek Press: website, Instagram, Facebook

EcoLit Books: website, Instagram, Bluesky

Midge Raymond: website, Instagram, Facebook, Bluesky

John Yunker: website, Instagram, Bluesky

Anything else you’d like to share?

To stay in touch, join our free newsletter at EcoLit Books.

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Anything is possible with a little bit of magick, as Ray Star shows in her award-winning Earthlings trilogy, a YA fantasy-dystopian mash-up taking place after an uprising that sees nonhuman animals claim dominion over Earth. The story follows a young witch called Peridot as she joins the Resistance to fight against the chickens hellbent on enslaving and killing the last remnants of humanity. In a world ruled by animals, readers vicariously experience how it feels to drop to the bottom of the food chain.

General Questions

Can you share a little bit about yourself, including how you came to care about animals and creative writing?

Hey, my name’s Ray, and I’m an author from Essex in the UK and I write fantasy tales with a vegan twist. Along with writing stories that nourish my soul, I’m a mother to two wonderful young boys, stepmother to two wonderful teen girls, and foster mum to an array of wonderful rescue animals, all of whom are my absolute world. I’m a passionate nature lover, an eclectic witch, a writer, a teacher and in my heart of hearts, a human, just like you. And yet, I am also so much more than those things. As, dear reader, are you.

I fell into creative writing after fifteen years as a business owner with no prior experience but I had a vision I simply had to bring to life, and all that has transpired since that vision has brought me to where I am now. It’s been quite a journey for which I am very grateful.

Most animal advocacy focuses on creating tangible changes in the real world. What role can the arts play in changing how people think about animals?

I believe it is the arts that hold the ability to impact our world the most. And yet, it is the arts that are being utilized the least.

Stories hold the ability to change the world.

Imagine a bookstore filled with novels, and held within each of their pages, fictional tales bringing escapism to the reader, whilst leaving a lasting imprint in their mind of what life could be like, if we were all a little kinder. To others. To ourselves. To animals. To this truly mesmerising planet that we are all blessed to call home. Can you imagine just for a moment the ripple effect that could have across humanity? The possibilities are endless.

If you have a story that can help others, whether that be human, animal, or something entirely different, if it inspires compassion, or promotes positive change in some way, please, I implore you…write that story.

After going vegan, when did you realize that writing fiction was the best, or primary, way for you to help animals?

Almost immediately after watching the Earthlings documentary I knew I had to write a story to reconnect readers with animals. I had consumed their flesh for almost thirty years prior to that moment, and after witnessing how the steak, chops, mince, milk and sausages came to be on my plate, it broke me. Like physically, emotionally, spiritually, tore me in two. SO much pain. SO much suffering. And it was partly my fault. Partly our fault. I had to do something. I knew so many others that would feel this way too if they knew the truth.

From this place of determination, the fictional Earthlings tale came to life in my mind. And I poured everything into it. The hurt, the pain, the wonder, the joy, the anger, sadness, all my hopes and fears for the world, it’s all in there. Encompassed in love, and compassion, which is the ultimate right-of-passage to the story. That love truly does conquer all. And to embrace that universal truth, can heal our world, for all species, our own included.

Aside from your own characters, do you have any other favorite fictional animals?

I grew up watching The Animals of Farthing Wood, and the main characters, a fox and a vixen, always stayed with me for their mission to protect and save the other creatures of the wood. I think I watched Dot and the Kangaroo perhaps a hundred times too, I don’t know anyone else who has seen this other than me, but if you have children, it’s a must. Then, of course, there is The Lion King. There is not a single character within that story that hasn't stayed with me. Mufasa’s words echo in my mind most days:

“Remember who you are.”

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Story Questions

I couldn’t help but think of Animal Farm and Tender is the Flesh while reading Earthlings, as well as YA fantasy series like Shadow and Bone. Are there any books from which you drew inspiration while developing the Earthlings world? Were any moments in the book inspired by real-life animal advocates from the past or present?

It’s strange to admit this out loud, and everytime that I do, people are surprised by my answer. But I had no idea how the Earthlings trilogy would begin, or end, until I sat down to write it. I had no inspiration, no storyboards…just an idea and an empty Word document. And each time I sat down to write, that idea flowed into characters and storyline, to plot twists, relationship dynamics, and scenes that could open a reader's eyes (gently) to the realities of modern day society for the creatures we share this world with.

The only parts taken from reality are some of the characters. Phoenix, Freyja and Willow are my beloved animal companions in real life, so they became main characters within the story. Phoenix (rest in peace boy, writing book three was so hard to do now that you’re gone) was a Pitbull rescue, and I wanted to raise awareness of Breed Specific Legislation, so that became an integral part of his backstory. Freyja was rescued from the streets after an awful situation, so that’s in there too.

The main character Peridot is named after a peridot ring my dad asked me to wear before he died, and her last name is my mothers maiden name. When looking up names for human characters I used names from my family tree (traced all the way back to 1771!).

For the more graphic scenes in the book, I needed to stay true to what happens in real life and this involved a very long Zoom call with the animal investigations team from Viva! as they outlined for me exactly how animals are reared and slaughtered so I could create the worldbuilding as authentically as possible. Then I named each title within the trilogy after documentaries that further portray the truth too. (Earthlings, Dominion, Land of Hope and Glory).

Some underlying themes in the series are that love and empathy cross the species boundary and that magick exists all around us. Why do those themes resonate with you, and in what ways would you like your readers to embrace them in their own lives?

This is a great question, and one that I would reflect back to you the reader. In this present moment, I’d like you to look back across your lifetime. Close your eyes, take a deep breath in through your nose, and hold it for the count of three as you bring to light a memory that brings you joy.

It can be anything, from any moment in your life, that truly made you feel warm and fuzzy inside and gave you an authentic, full-face, bare-your-teeth grin. When you remember that moment, let your breath out slowly through your mouth, and take a moment to reflect on how you felt.

Did that memory fill you with love? Did it feel, perhaps, a little magickal? I know my moment(s) did. Now give yourself permission to envision for a while longer that we could live in a world with more of those moments…because we totally, one million percent can, if we enable yourselves to give and feel love, and if we embrace all the magick that comes with it.

I believe that love and magick are two faces of the same coin, they are connected. If you are lacking love in your life, then you have become disconnected from your magick. Reconnect with your magick, and within moments, love will pour back in.

Can you walk us through the process of how you developed Earthlings’ magick system?

I follow a lot of Pagan traditions in my personal life so I implemented that in the story where possible, from foraging, to crystal healing, to following the wheel of the year. It felt true to the story and gave a wholesome feel to Peridot's upbringing.

I also knew I needed to give the story extra mystery and excitement for it to become what I envisioned it to be, and that’s when the deities came to me. I gave the Magickborn characters in the story an ancient embodiment that could take over at any moment, for better or for worse, and this reflected how our light and dark sides have the ability to do this in reality too. My favourite deity got only one chapter in the book (Lillith) but I believe she portrays the best and worst of all of us. I’m excited to delve more into her character when I write the prequel.

Why do you think stories about magick are so popular and timeless?

Truthfully? Because they’re so empowering. I think each of us dreams in some way of connecting with something greater than what we are and making changes to the world we live in. Magick enables that on a grand scale. Even if it’s escapism in books, films and tv programmes. But please remember, dear reader, that magick is real, it does exist, not in the sense of having control over the elements like Peridot and her friends (although we’re rather proactive at changing weather patterns), we do hold the ability to be the creator or creatrix of our reality.

And there is real magick in that.

Every species has a good reason to hate humans, so how did you decide which ones would align themselves with the Resistance?

This was tricky. I knew from the first word who the villain would be, but I needed to make it realistic. When I teach Writing for Animals workshops at schools, students often ask me, ‘Miss, why is the villain a chicken? Why not a lion?’ and it’s a valid question. My answer is that if our roles were reversed, sadly, lions wouldn't stand a chance. We’ve hunted them nearly to extinction, they simply do not have the numbers to rule. But animals that have been farmed for food? They don't have that problem.

Thanks to us, there are trillions of farmed animals in existence, and if they had voices and could communicate and revolt, would we stand a chance? I truly believe we’d suffer severe losses, if not be overrun and defeated. If you’ve ever stood next to a cow in person you’ll know what I mean. Their sheer weight alone one-on-one is unfathomable if they intended us harm. It is a cruel irony that they suffer so dreadfully, when if they did unite together and storm their oppressors they’d likely find freedom.

In a nutshell; those that hate us the most in the story are those that have experienced the most cruelty in real life. Those that are aligned with humans, are those that we have shown the most love and compassion to. Although I was really torn on where to place horses. And deer. But Bayard’s backstory fixed that.

I need to know a story’s basic plot points before I can write. What are some of the benefits and challenges of writing without an outline? How much of the story did you know before you started writing, both for the full series and for each individual book?

I believe that everyone’s story is unique to them, even in the way we write it, and for me, plotting just doesn’t work. The one time I did map out where the story would go, when I came to write it, something totally different ended up on the page. I intended for the ending to be a battle of magick-vs-magick, but then, I had a life-altering incident in my personal life involving bees and whilst writing from a flowstate, the ending took a totally different turn. And I’m so grateful it did, as I’d not included insects in the story so far.

Many may disagree with me on this, but I don’t believe in storyboarding. I believe that all time spent plotting the story is time spent away from actually connecting with and writing that story. For complicated narrative points that need tying up nicely, at the end of each chapter as I write, I pop in a colour font *Don’t forget *** so that it’s fresh in my mind for next time, and that’s pretty much my writing system. I dip into a flow state and what comes up is what goes on the page. I implore writers to give this a try too, let go of all expectations and just write. You’ll be amazed at where your story will take you if you’ve not restricted yourself to where it must go. Something even better than your plot could be waiting for you to tap into. It was for me.

We meet a lot of characters along the way, and the narrative shifts perspective throughout the series. How did you keep all the POV characters (and their plot lines) straight, and why did you decide to write them all in first person?

The good ol, different colour font reminder as mentioned above. It’s insane, I know, but it’s just what works for me. As I complete a chapter, before I log off, I have a few lines of incomprehensible-to-anyone-else waffle that looks like this: Peridot and Euan bond, complicated?? Hades & Seph FINALLY, Bayard speech, Jack in background, don’t forget Val’s coming, Joe’s vision, Bees, Darkness is bat sh*t crazy, Oh and Alan. Never forget ALAN!!

That right there is my writing technique. Ha! I can’t believe I just shared that with you, but it’s how I stay on track with all the characters, whilst not limiting myself to a complicated plot that is unlikely to play out when I’m in a flow state. I have a very vague reminder of what I mustn't forget, but that can still go anywhere. And I love seeing where it goes. Writing is as exciting as reading for me, as I have no clue what’s going to happen, just like my readers!

I write in first person to give the most impactful insight into each of the characters, as I like my readers’ to feel everyone's emotions as if it were their own. And for the reader to decide what they align with. It’s their story as much as it is mine.

I’ve found that people often victimize themselves when coming up with reasons why they can’t be vegan. (I don’t necessarily begrudge them for this; we all do it.) But in Earthlings, you’ve literally made humans the victims by swapping our position in the moral hierarchy with other animals, thereby making it easier for readers to empathize with animals in the real world. What’s the response been like from your non-vegan readers?

That question pretty much encapsulates why I wrote the story if I’m honest. Talk to people about veganism or animal suffering and they often get defensive or uncomfortable, and they place a judgement on you because of that conversation. It has the complete opposite effect of what that conversation was trying to achieve. It just doesn’t work. Not for me anyway.

But writing a story that looks and sounds like the next YA craze that anyone can pick up and delve into a world of magick and adventure, then be surprised by a narrative with a meaningful message that hits home, that is impactful, but more importantly not preachy. 90% of my readers are non-vegan, and from the reviews I’ve seen, this approach works.

If you tell someone that you believe something is wrong, they’ll have a million counters as to why it’s not. But through works of fiction (which are subjective to the reader and enable them to make up their own mind about the issue at hand) it becomes empowering. In so many ways. It frustrates me that more writers aren’t utilizing this to share their beliefs and make an impact in the world, for whatever cause they feel passionate about. Stories can change the world. Stories will change the world.

How did you come up with your pen name?

Losing my dad to pancreatic cancer in 2017 was the catalyst to this crazy journey in so many ways. The saying that trauma makes or breaks you is real in that when something truly earth shattering happens in life, you either crumple and succumb to all the feelings that come with it, or you process those feelings and it enables you to grow into an evolved version of who you were before that trauma hit.

Someone else, for me, became Ray. I was in my photography studio at the time (I owned a PR agency before I ceased trading to become an author) and propped up against the wall was a pair of my dads ladders, with the name of his business handpainted in his handwriting in red. His business was Ray Star Electric. A message from beyond the veil.

What was the process like of turning Earthlings into an audiobook?

Wonderful! This was truly so much fun. I have to give my sincere thanks to Albion Byrd and Paula Hunt for doing such an incredible job of bringing the characters (and there are A LOT of characters!) to life, they did a superb job. And to the team at Vegan Grants for funding the project. I am so eternally grateful for their belief in my story and for their generosity.

My dream is for Earthlings to make it onto the big screen, a picture says a thousand words and all that. I envision a Guardians of the Galaxy-style blockbuster (Alan would have major Rocket vibes) with an all vegan cast, a vegan director (does such a person exist?) spreading Peridot’s magick across the globe. Oh the spine tingles!

Hearing the story brought to life as an audiobook was incredible, and helps me stay aligned with that dream vision, and I can’t wait for the production of Dominion and Land of Hope and Glory to launch on Audible too.

Can you give us the details on the books’ gorgeous new cover art?

I loved the original cover and it was integral to the story (Peridot’s happy place is by a vast oak tree) but…it alienated a lot of potential readers from the YA genre by looking too environmental. That, and it’s a story with a hell of a lot of animal characters, and no inkling of that on the cover, and the designer who created the originals wasn’t able to create the final edition for LOHAG. The combination of those aspects lead me to co-create these covers by the wonderfully talented Designs By Danielle. And I love them.

If you could go back in time and start this whole process over again, is there anything you’d do differently?

I would have prepared myself from the start to do all of the book marketing myself. I’m with an indie press and I treasure my publisher but they don't have the budget that big publishers have to market their titles and I made some poor decisions in investing in PR agencies who did not live up to their hype. If I'd known from the start how let down I would feel with agencies charging substantial fees and not delivering on their pitches, I’d have done it myself from the beginning. Luckily I had 15 years of PR under my belt from my previous occupation and I’ve turned it around, but if I hadn’t put the graft in myself, I don’t think anyone would know the Earthlings world exists.

If you’re a fellow indie author, either self-published or with an indie press, put the time into understanding book marketing. My ticklist pre-book launch is as follows:

Create a press release (6 months in advance of the title launch), reach out to booksellers, bookstores, media, podcasts, book bloggers, book a blog tour, book a Bookbub promotion and/or Goodreads giveaway, get on BookTok/AuthorTok and share the story, research relevant keywords and SEO for the Amazon listing page, create the Amazon plus graphics on canva, get advance reviews way ahead of the launch date, set the title up for pre-order at least 3 months in advance of the release, then nearer the date do giveaways and utilize social media.

The list goes on, but the above are a must if you want a successful book launch. If you’re not with a big publisher with a team behind you promoting your book and you don’t do these things, it will reflect in your sales.

How does it feel to be done with Peridot’s story? How have readers reacted to the trilogy’s conclusion?

Oh so complete, yet oh so sad. Each of the characters came alive when I wrote them, and now that the trilogy is complete…it's like their lives are too. Some shall return in the prequel but I have other projects to finish before I can delve into the world of the Changing (Vallaeartha, Lucian and Joseph’s story). I can’t wait to go back and I hope my readers feel the same!

Some were shocked at a certain character's demise (no spoilers!) — one reader even wrote me an alternative super-gruesome ending — this made my day! — but on the whole, all boxes were ticked and the final chapters provided the shock, the tears, the ultimate conclusion, resolution, and one hell of a happy (ish) ending.

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Closing Questions

How can readers find you and your books online?

You can subscribe to my monthly newsletter via my website at raystarbooks.com for all book updates, event notifications and regular freebies, and I’m on most social media platforms with the handle @RayStarBooks, I love hearing from readers and aspiring writers — reach out anytime.

Any upcoming projects?

I’m in the process of building a Creative Writing App to help people connect and align with the story inside of them too. I’m passionate about stories changing the world and I’d like to help aspiring authors bring their visions to life, from a place of passion and flow like I did. Writing Earthlings changed my life, in so many ways.

I’ll also be including book marketing hacks and tips to help indie authors that don’t have a big team behind them. I know how hard it can be but I’ve cracked it, and so can you!

In the meantime you can catch me on BookTok for writing tips, and Instagram for spiritual nudges, and if you have children of school age, I teach creative writing workshops at schools across the country and I welcome enquiries for all ages from Key Stage 1 through to University.

Anything else you’d like to share?

Thanks so much for such insightful interview questions, and for sharing the Earthlings world with your readers.

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Can you share a bit about your team members?

We are an international team, based across the UK, Sweden and France. After spotting a gap in the UK market for a vegan-founded, independent publisher of fiction and non-fiction, we came together in 2024 to build a brand that combines quality writing with animal advocacy.

With more than 30 years’ collective experience in publishing and media, and with specialists in digital marketing, project management and graphic design, we are a passionate and creative team united by a shared desire to publish innovative stories, all bound with compassion.

Why was it important to the founders that veganism form the backbone of Wildthought’s mission as a publisher?

Striving for a world free from speciesism and discrimination is the founding value that makes Wildthought Books unique in the UK. Our goal is to foreground overlooked perspectives, challenge casual carnism and promote a kinder relationship between humans and non-human animals.

As we are committed to the principles of collaboration and community-building, we are establishing as a workers’ co-operative, with consensus and collaboration at the heart of everything we do. Our team has varied reading interests, from sci-fi to autobiographies, politics to translated fiction, but a common goal of publishing quality writing and making the world a better place for animals.

What kind of authors/submissions are you looking for?

Everyone is welcome to submit to Wildthought Books. We seek stories that make us feel. Whether that’s big ideas to break up the carnist status quo, or intimate personal narratives that shine new light on lived experiences, we’re looking for personality, authenticity and creativity. We publish fiction, non-fiction, handbooks and children’s books — whatever the genre, we want to bring thoughtful, compassionate perspectives into the world.

Why should authors choose Wildthought, and what kind of support will they get if they sign with you?

At Wildthought Books, our mission is to bring compassion to publishing. Part of that means treating authors with respect at every stage of the publishing process.

We know that it can feel risky for a writer to send your precious words to a new publisher. There’s no getting around the fact that we are a start-up: our authors won’t get a six-figure advance or an unlimited marketing budget. But, we will work with you to produce the book you want to see in the world.

Our editorial approach combines rigour and professionalism with compassion and patience. We’ll put you and your writing at the heart of our publishing process from initial submission right through to publication, promotion and beyond.

What’s one thing that can make a proposal/cover letter stand out?

The winning ingredient is not a polished cover letter (and it’s certainly not one written with the help of artificial intelligence).

What we’re looking for is authenticity. What is the idea you couldn’t shake that compelled you to dream up this book? Why are you the person to write it? How will it help make the world a more compassionate place (even in some small way)? If you have a clear idea of the story you want to tell and how it will make an impact, your vision and passion will come through to us in abundance.

What are some of the most common mistakes authors make in manuscript submissions, and what can they do to avoid them?

Not following the basic instructions (file type, word counts, etc.) isn’t a great way to impress the editors! More fundamentally, though, a common pitfall seems to be not engaging with why you think we could be a good fit for your book.

That doesn’t mean second-guessing exactly what we want or repeating phrases off our About Us page. It’s about showing an awareness of how a new, vegan-founded, independent publishing co-operative could be the ideal home for your manuscript. A submission is a chance to sell yourself and your idea. But don’t forget that the people reading your pitch are just five book lovers looking for a great story to publish.

What can authors, vegan or otherwise, do to better represent animals and animal advocates in their work?

Wildthought Books exists to address a gap in the market: a publisher for whom animal abuse is never casual, and where animals’ stories and lived experiences are elevated. In establishing Wildthought Books, we want to challenge the cruel status quo that treats animals as commodities. More than that, however, we also want to inspire authors, other publishers and wider society to think about how they use animals.

Literature is a great way to foster empathy and disrupt overly habitual methods of thought or action. Writing from the perspective of other animals is full of complexity but, done well, it can help build more compassionate and meaningful relationships. Stories can help us see animals as the individuals they are; especially for animals trapped in research laboratories or factory farms, part of the battle is to get people to recognise them as suffering, sentient beings rather than commodities to be exploited.

In contemporary fiction, there are still many lazy assumptions and trope-laden representations of other animals based on outdated, surface-level engagement with questions like “what would life be like as a bird?”. There are also too many glib references to casual animal cruelty, whether a trip to the aquarium or a splash of cow’s milk in a hot drink. Of course, fiction often mirrors reality, and hiding the truth of animal abuse industries does not mean it isn’t happening. Our plea to authors and publishers is for more critical engagement with the use of animals: we have the power to write a better world into existence. Now, there’s a wild thought!

What does the future hold for Wildthought?

We’re only just getting started! Our goal is to establish Wildthought Books as a respected publisher of quality fiction and non-fiction, seeing our books widely available in bookshops across the UK and further afield.

We’ll publish compelling stories and innovative ideas. In doing so, we aim to become a powerful voice for animals, and a welcoming space for anyone who values good writing. By combining bold storytelling with compassion and understanding, we will be a publisher never afraid to speak truth to power, nor too brash to dismiss other perspectives.

How can readers find you online?

Dive into our website. Sign up to our mailing list. Follow us on Instagram, Mastodon, LinkedIn and Facebook. We can’t wait to share this journey with you!

Anything else you’d like to share?

Join us on our journey. Whether you're a writer, book buyer, blogger, influencer, magazine editor or supporter who wants to be kept in the loop, please spread the word and sign up to our mailing list.

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